Telling people you are a poker player

[betgo]

I suppose this is the best forum to post this.

I had played a few home games over 20 years ago, but around June 2003 I started watching poker on TV and decided to try the play money tables online. The play money betting was ridiculous, so I tried playing real money. I lost my first two minimum buyins, but within 2 months of starting play I was making money. Within a year of starting, I was making most of my income from poker. I was a decent chess, go, and backgammon player, so I understand strategy.

Now, I have been in bad shape financially since 2002 due to the collapse of the software job market. Lately, software has recovered, and I could probably get back to making six figures as a programmer, but I think playing poker has more potential and is more enjoyable.

Now when I tell people I play poker, they get all sorts of weird ideas. I guess it is more respectable now than a few years ago. However, people think you have a gambling problem or they think you got lucky and won a big prize.

A lot of people think it is like pool hustling. There used to be gamblers on ocean liners, who were kind of hustler types. In "Rounders", they show some of the stuff that can be pulled, like using false pretenses to get into home games or games at country clubs or businessmen's clubs, where the stakes are much higher in relation to the skill level than games in public cardrooms. However, due to the random element in poker, people are generally more willing to gamble with better players than at pool or chess. Most poker professionals do not need to resort to anything more dishonest than bluffing.

Many people also have an image of poker professionals as rednecks or sleazy or low class. It is a field which doesn't require formal education, so there are a lot of professionals from poor backgrounds. A lot of players did start with other gambling such as pool hustling. However, there are also a lot of chess, backgammon, and bridge player who turn to poker.

How do you think professional poker players are regarded? Has the TV exposure chenged it that much?

[zaxx19]

Lately, software has recovered, and I could probably get back to making six figures as a programmer

I know a few people who program for TOP fortune 500 corporations. Not Microsoft or anthing just IT for very prominent companies. My dad has also worked in the field and is basically a floating director in a huge company.

Are you SURE you could make 6 figures or are you adding health dental 401K matching etc. etc.??

[turnipmonster]

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I know a few people who program for TOP fortune 500 corporations. Not Microsoft or anthing just IT for very prominent companies.

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IT and programming are generally regarded as two different things.

[eastbay]

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Are you SURE you could make 6 figures or are you adding health dental 401K matching etc. etc.??

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Some places like where I live, it would be kind of hard not to, and you'd be getting ripped off if you weren't.

eastbay

[betgo]

I was a contract programmer before the deluge, and can definately make more than $100K in straight cash doing that. I also assume the job market is improving.

[eastbay]

I think the majority of people think it's the following things:

dishonest ("making money by lying")
immoral (everyone knows gambling is evil soul destroying stuff)
a waste of a life (you could be a teacher or a policeman)
an addiction by definition (you drink all the time you're alcoholic, you gamble all the time you're a gambling addict)

There are exceptions, but I think this is the mainstream view.

eastbay

[Boris]

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How do you think professional poker players are regarded?

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean honestly, who really gives a shyt? Where is POKERVETERAN when we need him?

[adsman]

When people find out that I play poker, 99% of them roll their eyes and reel off some inane cliche which amounts to a put-down on my chosen hobby, (a hobby that makes money). I used to try and make them understand what poker was really about, but I've given that up as I've come to a realisation.

99% of people in this world are generally incapable of tying their shoelaces in the morning. What the fcuk do I care if they disapprove of my poker playing?

[Loci]

It's easier to call it a hobby... a lucrative hobby... that pays all your bills..... mainstream house/car/kids/dog/picketwhitefence society doesn't give much thought to our "hobby." You don't need their approval, Just do your thing. If you do need their approval, for whatever reason, then tell them the truth... "I'm a professional liar." Then show them by lying about everything past that.
I'm going to be a teacher, but I'm also trying my hand as a writer and a poker player... I am a professional liar.

[robinsons]

[ QUOTE ]
Lately, software has recovered, and I could probably get back to making six figures as a programmer

I know a few people who program for TOP fortune 500 corporations. Not Microsoft or anthing just IT for very prominent companies. My dad has also worked in the field and is basically a floating director in a huge company.

Are you SURE you could make 6 figures or are you adding health dental 401K matching etc. etc.??

[/ QUOTE ]

I live in the UK so I have minimal knowledge of the US job market, but equating big companies with big salaries doesn't always follow (unless you are a very senior position in the big company, in which case you are obviously sitting pretty).
I used to hold a senior position (#2 in the company behind the guy who owns it) in a relatively small internet marketing company in the UK (around 15 employees, turnover of ~$5m) and was pulling in around $120k/year before tax, although I've since quit that for personal reasons (fed up of boss, not willing to work 9-6 at this stage of my life).
I now do freelance stuff which comes in ebbs and flows but can easily cover all my expenses working 1 or 2 days per week. This however I want to phase out completely to concentrate on playing poker alone, as even this I find restrictive... sorry for rambling and changing the topic on to me, just thought I'd give me views as there seem to be some similiarities between our position.

[robinsons]

and as for telling people that I play poker, and want to have 100% of my income coming from that in a few years... most people that I know view it pretty much on a level with betting on horses or playing roulette (which are the same, in their eyes)

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the majority of people think it's the following things:

dishonest ("making money by lying")
immoral (everyone knows gambling is evil soul destroying stuff)
a waste of a life (you could be a teacher or a policeman)
an addiction by definition (you drink all the time you're alcoholic, you gamble all the time you're a gambling addict)

There are exceptions, but I think this is the mainstream view.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Same can be said for programming /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the majority of people think it's the following things:

dishonest ("making money by lying")
immoral (everyone knows gambling is evil soul destroying stuff)
a waste of a life (you could be a teacher or a policeman)
an addiction by definition (you drink all the time you're alcoholic, you gamble all the time you're a gambling addict)

There are exceptions, but I think this is the mainstream view.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Same can be said for programming /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

same can be said for any job in a corporation actually.

[Loci]

Hmmm... I believe Steve Buschemi made a similar comment as Garlan Green in Con Air.... creepy.

[MicroBob]

or they just think it's 'damn cool'.

That's the most common reaction I get.

I think my choice of who to share this with is a bit more selective though.


I popped this info on a guy whom I don't know terribly well recently.
coach of my rec-league soccer team asked what I do for a living...and I didn't feel like making anything up.

I told him "This is going to sound kind of silly..but actually I play poker on the internet for a living."
He was amazed (and I really was expecting more of a "are you serious?" type of response).

He has played on the play-money tables on party before and now wants me to help him with his game.

While I was away on the PPM IV cruise he checked the standings and saw that I had made the money. At our next soccer game the whole team was asking me about the poker tournament.

I really would have preferred he not tell everyone but I don't really mind too much...I'm more comfortable about it now I guess.


I have also dealt with those who just assume you are an addict or something close to that. A couple of those people, strangely enough, are people I used to work with when I was a BJ dealer.

But they are SO used to seeing gambling-degenerates and seeing people lose money in the most irresponsible of ways that 'professional gambler' usually really does mean 'total degenerate gambling moron.'
One person asks me questions like "who stakes you?" and "how much have you lost so far?" "oh...you've been winning...wow, you must be getting really lucky."

I never liked that person in the first place....and people like this typically just aren't going to be friend of mine in the first place.


The experience with the soccer-coach guy was a pleasant surprise though.


My advice is to be friends with a higher-percentage of non-stupid people.

But I do also understand the stigma that is associated with this whole online-poker thing and know that that's not the only requirement involved and that sometimes it just isn't practical.

[AnyTwoCanLose]

Its true that there's a general perception out there that poker's more about luck than anything else.

If everyone understood that in the long term, luck play hardly any role (long term being ridiculously long)... people would never play anyone better than themselves.

Also... don't discount the role that jealousy plays. I'm sure that many people that you think look down on you, actually admire the fact that you have a fun job... and are green with envy because they hate theirs.

My mom's embarrassed by the fact I play poker. When I'm playing and people ask her what I'm up to she feels the need to lie... she tells them I am a transvestive prostitute.

[BottlesOf]

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There used to be gamblers on ocean liners

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Are you thinking of riverboats?

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
When people find out that I play poker, 99% of them roll their eyes and reel off some inane cliche which amounts to a put-down on my chosen hobby, (a hobby that makes money). I used to try and make them understand what poker was really about, but I've given that up as I've come to a realisation.

99% of people in this world are generally incapable of tying their shoelaces in the morning. What the fcuk do I care if they disapprove of my poker playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

[betgo]

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There used to be gamblers on ocean liners


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you thinking of riverboats?

[/ QUOTE ]

The gamblers on ocean liners were pretty much all hustlers, which I am not sure is true of the river boats.

[stigmata]

"My advice is to be friends with a higher-percentage of non-stupid people."

That kinda sums up my opinion. Most of my friends and family are pretty open-minded. They might be shocked or suprised, or not understand properly at first. But once you explain there like "oh, cool".

You can see the jerks coming. There's alot of stuff I wouldn't tell them, and I don't want to know about them either....

[eastbay]

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My advice is to be friends with a higher-percentage of non-stupid people.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say this was my friends' view. I said it was the mainstream view.

eastbay

[Klepton]

i have had many bad experiences telling people i play poker in general, than actually saying "i'm a pro."

the two times i received positive reactions:

1) after a study session somebody asked me what my job is, i said "you'll think it's stupid" then told them it was poker. I was trying to be modest, but they asked how much they made and it soon turned into this wow fest (btw i'm not trying to gloat, as i'm not even close in the earnings on this site, but for a college student it's a lot)

2) at a college party my friend was drunk and when he introduced me to this friend of his he drunkenly said "the greatest poker player ever" and we laughed. The guy then asked "do you play poker?" and my friend blurted out some untrue number, but then the guy was all interested, even after i told him that my friend was lying.

basically from my experiences as soon as the find out how much money you have been making, then they make their decision.

i guarantee bicycle kick has no problem telling people he plays poker for a living, but he might introduce it as "i'm a luckbox" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jen]

I can tell you about Silicon Valley, which presumably has the highest paid programmers in the industry. From my perspective, there are multiple ways in which people command a six figure income (for salaried employees, not contractors, and includes straight salary only but excludes benefits, bonuses, and options):

1. junior guys with ~4 yrs or less of experience need to be exceptional in their field
2. senior guys with 4-8 yrs need to be good in their field
3. extra senior types with 8+ yrs need only have been with a reasonably successful company for an extended period of time; I've seen horrible people making this salary, though the post-bubble burst cleaned out many of them.

Newly minted BSE guys with no experience would need to walk on water to hit the six figure mark straight out of school.

[MicroBob]

I'm really fortunate with my family in that virtually everyone approves.

I think both my Mom and Dad (they're divorced) kind of brag about it to respective cousins, aunts/uncles, etc.
Weird.


My mom was EXTREMELY skeptical when I started.
My Dad doesn't know anything about poker but understands that if you have a tiny edge but get to keep pushing that edge over and over you'll be a winner in the long-run.
My Dad convinced my Mom that I was probably smart enough to pull it off...and if it didn't work I wasn't stupid enough to get myself into any kind of trouble.


I occasionally send them articles about poker (such as the recent one from the general forum featuring Greg Shahade which was a REALLY good article).


Part of the reason all of my relatives (very conservative) are so accepting is their perception of me.
When I was 4 or 5 yrs old I could already multiply and divide.
my calculator was my favorite toy (seriously...I was a weird kid...I never went anywhee without it).

I was thought to be some sort of child-genius who was MIT bound.


Well, I didn't exactly fulfill that potential (because REAL math is kinda hard) but they all remember me as the kid who counted to a million on a family-vacation when he was 7-years-old or who was beating his Dad at chess when he was 9, etc etc.


I imagine they have a REALLY faulty image of me as a pro-poker player.
Something of a cross between Sklansky and Garry Kasparov who can calculate every odd on each hand to the nth degree and can see 14 moves ahead on the chess board all at the same time.


It's a REALLY faulty image but there isn't much I can do about it.....and not having any relatives who disapprove of what I do is NOT something I take for granted.

[EliteNinja]

I've been totally open with my parents about it.
Since my mom knows, all my freakin relatives know.
You know moms and gossip!!!
It spreads.

It's all good, most of my relatives are gamblers.
I'm probably the only winning one, lol.

[EightStuda]

I don't think there's as much stigma attached to poker as there was years ago. However, regarless of what others think if it's something you want to do you really shouldn't care what others think, at least those who arn't close to you.

-Dimitri

[TStoneMBD]

my father, and all of my relatives on that side of the family think its amazing what i am doing. they see the $ signs more than the morality of what i am doing. they all were born in italy, and had to work their way through the poor life in pizza resturants. they see me with all this money at such a young age and think its great.

my mother is slightly discouraged about what i do. as a christian, she thinks gambling is wrong. she doesn't really care about money so much as she does about morals. so when i tell her about all the money ive been making she doesnt really seem to care all too much. shes more interested in how my social life is going but that is not important to me whatsoever at the current state in time. she thinks that its important for me to get a 9-5 job "on the side" for $12/hr just because she thinks that this is morally correct for some reason. this is obviously ridiculous because a days pay at that job is what im earning per hour. she has become more comfortable with my career as she is seeing that i am really not throwing my life away and that i am going to be successful. i still think that she would rather see me as a lawyer or something simliar, but that is simply not me. i am business minded, which i may very well move into within the next few years. poker is merely what is going to propel me into whatever the next stage of my life will be.

i hate telling people that im a professional poker player. some people find it amazingly interesting, which i suppose that it is. some people think youre a degenerate loser. i kind of want to spring for a rolex or something just so that i can show people that im really not broke, and actually am doing very well. i suppose that i should be more open to discussing my poker career, as people are wildly entertained by it when they hear that is what i am doing.