Two KK hands

[DVC Calif]

Stars $20+2 rebuy tourney.

Hand No. 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t3000)
Hero (t3000)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t1500)
CO (t3000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t90</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB calls t80, BB calls t70.

Flop: (t270) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, SB folds, BB calls t200.

Turn: (t670) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t500</font>, BB calls t500.

River: (t1670) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t1240</font>, <font color="red">Hero...???</font>


Hand No. 2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)
MP3 (t1130)
CO (t1685)
Button (t6910)
Hero (t8940)
BB (t3345)
UTG (t5590)
UTG+1 (t2755)
MP1 (t2750)
MP2 (t2895)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t90</font>, MP3 calls t90, CO calls t90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t500</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t410, MP3 calls t410, CO calls t410.

Flop: (t2030) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">[b]<font color="red">Hero...???</font>

[Potowame]

wow, talk about wanting to vomit..

hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I probably call anyway in rebuy. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really only 34% mathematically (assuming opponents have random hands), but the preflop action does increase that number dramatically (i.e. we assume opponents' hands are not random) so check-fold is probably OK. If you had enough to bet 60% of the pot and then get away, you could try it, but your opponents are too short in this case.

Later,
Che

[nsj]

Those actually hurt to read.

I muck them both. Villain in 1 was almost certainly calling along with the Ac.

In 2, you have two outs. Check/fold.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I probably call anyway in rebuy. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really only 34% mathematically (assuming opponents have random hands), but the preflop action does increase that number dramatically (i.e. we assume opponents' hands are not random) so check-fold is probably OK. If you had enough to bet 60% of the pot and then get away, you could try it, but your opponents are too short in this case.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/ both.

[betgo]

KK is a nice starting hand, but I play these both the same way I would play 33 if I was the third limper into a pot and I missed my set. Try playing Omaha if you want practice laying down big starting hands.

[Potowame]

I missed the Rebuy part.

I think It might Make hand #1 a closer call.

Hand #2 I was going off the chart in SS, page 578.

9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

[Potowame]

Omaha , oh the pain /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
KK is a nice starting hand, but I play these both the same way I would play 33 if I was the third limper into a pot and I missed my set. Try playing Omaha if you want practice laying down big starting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's horrible advice. you'd check-fold the flop in the first one?

[DVC Calif]

Hand #1: Folded to river bet.

Hand #2: Made a weak t500 raise hoping to post oak bluff (I know, I know...I'm embarassed to even post I did that /images/graemlins/blush.gif ). MP2 re-raises all-in and MP3 calls. I fold. MP2 turns over K/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif and hits his nut flush on the turn. MP3 had A rag.

Just wanted to check if my laydowns were too weak.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che

[Tyler Durden]

Hand One, I'd never fold the river at this level of the rebuy. Ppl show all kinds of crap in that tourney. If he has me beat, no big deal, I'll just do a double rebuy. Maybe that's wrong, I dunno, but I'm not folding. No way. The first hour is for gambling it up and building a stack. For me anyway.

[Potowame]

[ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che



[/ QUOTE ]

That does drastically change the figure, I assumed this was a figure that you use for total hands dealt , not total players in hand. I guess I was wrong, thank you for clearing that up.

[betgo]

If hand 1 is a rebuy, I might call on the river, not to gamble it up, but because my opponent may be gambling it up.

In a rebuy, I would have bet more on every street, partly because I am likley to be called, and partly to because it will be hard to get away from the hand if someone draws out on me.

[DVC Calif]

Hand 1 was against Jennicide. This was the first hand of the tourney and I have never played against her. I've read some of her post, so it might have been a semi bluff based on her style of play. However, my gut told me I was beat, so I went on instinct.

[DVC Calif]

[ QUOTE ]
In a rebuy, I would have bet more on every street, partly because I am likley to be called, and partly to because it will be hard to get away from the hand if someone draws out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just re-read this and am puzzled. You'd rather be pot committed to a potential losing hand than price the chasers to draw but still be able to laydown if they hit?

Is this just because it was rebuy or in general?

I went into the tank and seriously considered calling her but hated the idea of rebuying on the second hand. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

not neccessarily. if you assume "every player will play any ace" (wrong, but not too wrong in a rebuy) then you definitely have to consider how many people were dealt in.

even if you don't make that ridiculous assumption, you still do. if you're playing 4-handed and everyone limps, the hands aren't neccessarily good, whereas if four players (including the blinds) limp 11-handed, the hands should be better and have more aces.

[Ace_Ren]

Hand 1:
Consider betting the total size of the pot or more. 200 into a 270 pot with 2 clubs on board makes it all too tempting to call by someone who's holding 2 clubs in their hand. Especially in a rebuy tourney.

The bet on the turn is potentially undersized as well, but I think it makes the point and tells you all that you need to know.

I do think you have to fold on the river though.

Hand 2: You're almost guaranteed to be facing an A from at least one of them. It looks like another fold to me.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


In a rebuy, I would have bet more on every street, partly because I am likley to be called, and partly to because it will be hard to get away from the hand if someone draws out on me.




[/ QUOTE ]
I just re-read this and am puzzled. You'd rather be pot committed to a potential losing hand than price the chasers to draw but still be able to laydown if they hit?

Is this just because it was rebuy or in general?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a rebuy people will likely call, so I want to get a lot of money in preflop.

Early in a rebuy, I love calling raises with small pair or connecting cards. People will inevitably put me allin with their overpair versus my straight or set.

With everyone playing loose, it will be difficult to get away from an overpair, so I don't want to give myself negative implied odds by not getting enough money in preflop.

When I get KK preflop in a rebuy, I am not looking to get away from it. In a rebuy, how are you going to know if someone hits their draw? They might put you allin with top pair when you have an overpair.