Sklansky Memorization Challenge

[bobman0330]

So, a friend of mine and I decided to make a prop bet. The challenge: who can most effectively memorize Holdem Poker for Advanced Players. I'm seeking advice on a few parameters of the bet.

1. Time: We were originally considering a month, but is this too little? 2 months? If we have too much time, we'll both be able to get it cold.
2. Format: We're going to draft a mutual friend to choose passages at random, read the paragraph before the passage, and maybe the first 3 words of the passage, then we'll be off. Thoughts?
3. Judging: I think we should have 20-25 passages with some kind of scoring system. Maybe 50 points for word-perfect, 40 points for 3 or fewer purely textual errors, 30 points for many textual errors but perfect on the concepts, 20 points for one error of poker knowledge, 10 points for many serious errors, 0 points for could not recite.

Feel free to scrap all these suggestions and propose something totally new. Thanks in advance!

[Worldclass]

GET A LIFE !!

[jakethebake]

Clearly this is a stupid idea. Can you see why?

[tpir90036]

You would think that someone with almost 7,000 posts would know that it's "do you see why."

Do you see why?

[bobman0330]

you know, that's a good point. Why would I want to waste my time on an intellectually challenging, gambling-related activity with a friend when I could be flaming random posters, or accumulating SEVEN THOUSAND 2+2 posts. You guys have made me see the light.

On a somewhat unrelated note, here's a eugenics proposal for the modern world: forced sterilization of message-board trolls. Discuss.

[moot]

I'm pretty sure you're still dumb.

Fold preflop.

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]
you know, that's a good point. Why would I want to waste my time on an intellectually challenging, gambling-related activity with a friend when I could be flaming random posters, or accumulating SEVEN THOUSAND 2+2 posts. You guys have made me see the light.

On a somewhat unrelated note, here's a eugenics proposal for the modern world: forced sterilization of message-board trolls. Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think memorization is intellectually challenging, nor is it gambling related. it's memorizing words.

i agree, fold preflop.

[bobman0330]

What the hell is wrong with you people?? What bizarre psychosis makes you think any of these responses are in any way appropriate? You don't think this is a good idea? That's nice, who cares? In the future, why don't you not post your stupid, non-constructive responses, and use the time saved to punch yourself in the nuts.

moot: f*ck you.
jojo: you sound like someone who's too stupid to have a good memory and consoles themselves by saying it's not an intellectual activity. And making a bet about memorizing a book about gambling is not gambling-related. Huh? Furthermore, even if saying "fold preflop" in a non-poker context was witty the first time, [it wasn't... it was almost unbearably trite. Why don't you just masturbate while thinking about how many 2+2 posts you read? Congratulations, you can import poker concepts into non-poker discussions!] it was pathetically imitative the second time. [Why don't you go fellate moot while thinking about how many 2+2 posts you both read?]

[wegs the wegs]

I think everyone needs to turn off the computer... stand up... and walk around for a bit.

Have a beer if you are old enough.

Let's all breathe in... hold... and breath out...

Repeat



Repeat



Repeat



Ok... now what was the problem?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
What the hell is wrong with you people?? What bizarre psychosis makes you think any of these responses are in any way appropriate? You don't think this is a good idea? That's nice, who cares? In the future, why don't you not post your stupid, non-constructive responses, and use the time saved to punch yourself in the nuts.

moot: f*ck you.
jojo: you sound like someone who's too stupid to have a good memory and consoles themselves by saying it's not an intellectual activity. And making a bet about memorizing a book about gambling is not gambling-related. Huh? Furthermore, even if saying "fold preflop" in a non-poker context was witty the first time, [it wasn't... it was almost unbearably trite. Why don't you just masturbate while thinking about how many 2+2 posts you read? Congratulations, you can import poker concepts into non-poker discussions!] it was pathetically imitative the second time. [Why don't you go fellate moot while thinking about how many 2+2 posts you both read?]

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you thought about this yet, and realized that the reason you got these responses is because this is a really dumb idea?

[FishHooks]

This is a HORRIABLE idea, and i'm going to stress it more since it pisses you off. Hell does me memorizing 10 differnt math equasions mean i know what they mean or would I know how to use them? Of course not, the book its self can only cover so many situations, proboly only like 200 examples in the book, how will memorizing anything in there help you? The book's job is to get you to realize WHY these plays are correct and why you should do things in certian situations. The amount of time this would take, would be counter productive, you could be spending this time working on your game....get it now?

[nate1729]

I'm the other party to this bet. We both work on our games plenty. We just want to make this bet to aid our total mastery of a terrific poker book and have some fun doing it. You'll never hear either one of us saying "I can recite long passages from HEFAP, therefore I am better than you at poker;" we're both too intelligent to believe something so silly. What you're missing is that this bet just fits into our poker interests and offbeat senses of humor. Now: do you have any ideas for the execution of this bet?

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a HORRIABLE idea, and i'm going to stress it more since it pisses you off. Hell does me memorizing 10 differnt math equasions mean i know what they mean or would I know how to use them? Of course not, the book its self can only cover so many situations, proboly only like 200 examples in the book, how will memorizing anything in there help you? The book's job is to get you to realize WHY these plays are correct and why you should do things in certian situations. The amount of time this would take, would be counter productive, you could be spending this time working on your game....get it now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if you memorized a dictionary your spelling wouldn't be so HORRIABLE. Proboly. And memorizing 10 equations isn't really an intellectual feat for most of us... In any case, I don't really give a [censored] whether or not this is the best way to boost my win rate. To be honest, I play poker mostly as a hobby, and my number one concern in evaluating a leisure activity is not its EV.

To sum up, I don't particularly care whether this is a stupid idea, or if I could be pondering the play of QJs, or whatever instead. I get drunk and do stupid [censored] every weekend... I enjoy it. This post was actually meant to appeal to people with a similar mindset, not the apparently innumerable tools and assholes who enjoy flaming people. Get it now?

EDIT: And the utility of this prop bet is at least equal to reading or writing endless uninformed reviews of and commentaries on Super System 2, which is apparently the only other thing this forum is used for.

[FishHooks]

How are you friends with the other guy, that should be the real question. You seem normal and he seems crazy. What limits do you guys play, because hold'em for advanced players is really geared toward higher llimit games like 15/30.

[Woody09]

I think that you should give each other 1 month to 6 weeks..........

in that time you should be able to get a hand gun with which to kill yourselves.

[Stuey]

1. Shorten the time. I memorize things quickly and it does not stay with me long. I would make it 1 day. You both have read the book before several times right?

2. How about a double blind challenge format? You pick the part for him to recite. If he fails you get a chance to steal the point if you can recall it. The 3rd guy just checks you both for accuracy.

3. 1 point for a steal 2 for winning a challenge.

*The loser should have to flame the posters that got on you here for a full month. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[LiquidChalance]

I think it is a good idea Bob and Nate. Though a little akward I believe I understand the nature of your wager. I think your only mistake was thinking that people on this site would respond positively (Though when it comes specifically to poker concepts people are eager to prove their intelligence) and consequently believed that someone would give you helpful advice. My advice is conduct the wager that is best geared towards your time constraints, ability to remember and most importantly as you stated what will derive the most utiility.

[nate1729]

Heh. We both grind out 5-10 online and play live between 5-10 and 10-20, with an eye to moving up. We both find HEFAP applicatble and instructive enough to have read it lots of times, discussed it at great length, and wanted to memorize it.

So, I'm embarking on a freelance-writing career, and I'm glad that I could somehow convince you that I'm an authoritative and sensible person. Bobman is the far less crazy of the two of us.

Thanks much for having something to say other than "u suck, what u think memorizing sklansky will make u good at poker?"

--Nate

[joeg]

I think it is quite a good idea, one thing common to all good poker players is a good memory, and contrary to popular belief your memory is good as you make it, if you exersise it then it gets better, memorising recipes from womans weekly would probably improve your poker if you did it often enough as you are also strengthening your concentration and memory. Whats more memorising a book on its own probably wont impove your poker, but if any of you are like me and spend half their time away from the table thinking about poker and strategies having this information to hand will undoubtably improve your analysis of hands played and hence how to play them in future. I doubt I could be arsed with this myself but it is certainly not useless, good luck with the bet

[TransientR]

I would suggest instead of rote memorization using techniques like those outlined by Charles Van Doren/Mortimer Adler in "How to Read a Book." You and your friend could make a detailed outline of the book and quiz each other on your grasp of the concepts explored. Create hypotheticals to see if you can apply what you have read, etc.

Not that memorization is wrong, but this seems to be a more active approach, avoiding the pitfalls of memorization (losing the forest in the trees).

Frank

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I would suggest instead of rote memorization using techniques like those outlined by Charles Van Doren/Mortimer Adler in "How to Read a Book." You and your friend could make a detailed outline of the book and quiz each other on your grasp of the concepts explored. Create hypotheticals to see if you can apply what you have read, etc.

Not that memorization is wrong, but this seems to be a more active approach, avoiding the pitfalls of memorization (losing the forest in the trees).

Frank

[/ QUOTE ]

Great book.

[Trainwreck]

Sorry Bob, I think I agree with the majority that think the idea is NUTS.

TOP man, wth were you thinking? LOL!

>TW<

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Bob, I think I agree with the majority that think the idea is NUTS.

TOP man, wth were you thinking? LOL!

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice he didn't say the NUTS!

[AdvancedPlaya]

Bob, here's a case I like to present: "I just wanted to say, we need more GENIUSES! More geniuses to come up with great ideas. It only angers me when they are rejected along with their ideas by idiots." Now that case, has nothing to do with your case. See, I think you are a bafoon, and your plan only strengthens my belief that you will never attract anybody or date...ever. Now, in your case, I believe an idiot posted a plan, and other idiots--certainly not "Jakethebake",--(sarcasm)--rejected it. Simple. Now, good luck on your mission, of,...of..whatever the heck you wanna call that desperate travesty of a plan.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob, here's a case I like to present: "I just wanted to say, we need more GENIUSES! More geniuses to come up with great ideas. It only angers me when they are rejected along with their ideas by idiots." Now that case, has nothing to do with your case. See, I think you are a bafoon, and your plan only strengthens my belief that you will never attract anybody or date...ever. Now, in your case, I believe an idiot posted a plan, and other idiots--certainly not "Jakethebake",--(sarcasm)--rejected it. Simple. Now, good luck on your mission, of,...of..whatever the heck you wanna call that desperate travesty of a plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Genius post! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Format: We're going to draft a mutual friend to choose passages at random, read the paragraph before the passage, and maybe the first 3 words of the passage, then we'll be off. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would change this to having a set of hand play quizes that are not exactly the same as from the book, but with the same rational for the correct answer. Seems more useful long term. You could steal some from HoH perhaps.

[nate1729]

Ah, you seem to be able to grasp the difference between "not the single optimally time-efficient way to get better at poker" and "totally worthless." Congratulations. The thing is, having committed to memory long passages of characteristically Sklanskian prose is worth the time for its humor value alone.

Now, any ideas for the mechanics of the bet resolution?

[InchoateHand]

My friend and I are going to start memorizing the worst threads in 2+2, beginning with this one. Whoever memorizes the most wins. What do you guys think?

[PE101]

Interesting premise...

How about this:
If you get the passage right, take a shot of tequila.
If you get it wrong, take a shot of rum.

1st on to throw up loses...

[PE101]

This really might be a good idea...

Refer to a section in the book. The other guy has to PARAPHRASE it. This would require insight and understanding.

Rather than keep score, make it a discussion.

[InchoateHand]

[ QUOTE ]
This really might be a good idea...

Refer to a section in the book. The other guy has to PARAPHRASE it. This would require insight and understanding.

Rather than keep score, make it a discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congratulations! You dorks have turned a really stupid bet into high-school study hall.

[Crispy86]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a HORRIABLE idea, and i'm going to stress it more since it pisses you off. Hell does me memorizing 10 differnt math equasions mean i know what they mean or would I know how to use them? Of course not, the book its self can only cover so many situations, proboly only like 200 examples in the book, how will memorizing anything in there help you? The book's job is to get you to realize WHY these plays are correct and why you should do things in certian situations. The amount of time this would take, would be counter productive, you could be spending this time working on your game....get it now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if you memorized a dictionary your spelling wouldn't be so HORRIABLE. Proboly. And memorizing 10 equations isn't really an intellectual feat for most of us... In any case, I don't really give a [censored] whether or not this is the best way to boost my win rate. To be honest, I play poker mostly as a hobby, and my number one concern in evaluating a leisure activity is not its EV.

To sum up, I don't particularly care whether this is a stupid idea, or if I could be pondering the play of QJs, or whatever instead. I get drunk and do stupid [censored] every weekend... I enjoy it. This post was actually meant to appeal to people with a similar mindset, not the apparently innumerable tools and assholes who enjoy flaming people. Get it now?

EDIT: And the utility of this prop bet is at least equal to reading or writing endless uninformed reviews of and commentaries on Super System 2, which is apparently the only other thing this forum is used for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you recognize that the utility is the same, fine. The point several have tried to make (you did request suggestions) is that it is a completely pointless exercise, and won't improve your poker at all, unless improving your ability to memorize is considered to be an important poker skill.

Your comment on the 10 equations shows you're either being deliberately obtuse, or simply cannot understand that the book is mostly about concepts and not theorems. His comment was that memorizing 10 equations doesn't mean you either understand them or apply them. The book is much the same.

You also claim you hope to find people of a similar mindset. Well, I think you're in the wrong place, since these forums are mostly about poker and improving in it, and most here undoubtedly presumed you meant this as a way to improve your poker.

You'll probably get better feedback at http://www.worldmemorychampionship.com where there are links and even a forum. Along the same lines, you'll find the record holder in memorizing random decks of cards, with a single sighting, is Dominic O'Brien, who memorized 54 decks (2808 cards) in roughly 12 hours.

[AdvancedPlaya]

BOB, please don't be scared. Please reply to my post. And in case that is too much for your mind, my post is the other one, which will be under the author name of "AdvancedPlaya." Note, how that is the same name I posted this under. Do not confuse, ok? Did that all make sense BOB, or can your mind not handle those instructions? Afterall, you did post what many believe to be the WORST thread ever.