how short-stacked do you need to be to make this call?

[dfscott]

I'm trying to get a handle on when stack size is more important than your cards when calling from the BB. For purposes of this question, I'm only talking about when your stack is getting low and you're going to have to make a move soon.

Button was fairly tight and had been folding a lot.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t545)
SB (t1125)
Hero (t555)
UTG (t4230)
MP (t1545)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button raises all-in, SB folds, Hero ???

[Scuba Chuck]

These are always difficult predicaments. There are more considerations in your decision here as well including when the blinds increase next. Another important consideration is the magnitude of the blinds as well.

IMO, there are many good reasons to call here. And there are almost equally as many good reasons to fold. Here's the most interesting fact. Accoding to the "push or wait" thread a while back, the best hand value you can expect by waiting just one hand is J7. And one hand later you're getting hit with the small blind. If you fold these two hands, you're now at 200 which is a mistake.

Calling here is the best option, IMO.

Scuba
who voted for 3BB or less, FWIW

[nWirb]

I'd call this because of the odds you are getting.
Say he is fairly tight and will only push with 66+, A7+, KT+, QJ he is about a 70%/30% favourite to win the hand this is ~2.3/1. The pot is offering you ~2.44/1.
This doesn't take into account that he may just be playing his position and pushing with crap.
If you win this you will have 1200 chips and be on the bubble in third chip position with a good chance at ITM and you covering SB giving him less FE.
If you fold you would be almost forced to go all in next hand with no FE, then it would be 50%/50% and even if you won you would still only have 710 chips, with a not so good chance at ITM.

[swarm]

it's hail mary time!

i'm curious what hands you passed up UTG and MP1... If I'm less than 3 BB I'm pushing anything remotely decet before I end up in the BB. 7-9off would be good enough for me. Once in the BB you've got to call in my opinion.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
it's hail mary time!

i'm curious what hands you passed up UTG and MP1... If I'm less than 3 BB I'm pushing anything remotely decet before I end up in the BB. 7-9off would be good enough for me. Once in the BB you've got to call in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had just pushed Q6 from the button and stolen the blinds. My CO hand was 85o, and my MP1 hand was Q7 (probably could've pushed that), but I thought I'd see what UTG brought.

Unfortunately, Party did it's little trick (that I claimed in another post doesn't happen), and I was never UTG -- it just threw me straight from MP1 into the BB.

[RobGW]

These odds are too good to pass up with almost any stack size. In this situation you are desperate and so is the button. There are 5 people left so you cant fold your way into the money. You can't even steal your way back into it because you will very likely be called any time you push. You need to double up. J5 isn't a great hand but given the odds you are getting its good enough.

[ilya]

I think you should fold if you have between 3-5 or so BB after posting, otherwise you should call. If you have less than 3xBB, you call because winning the pot would make a big difference in your chances by giving you FE, and you don't have much to lose anyway. If you have more than 5xBB, you call because you're getting great pot odds, and losing this wouldn't destroy you. If you have 3-5xBB after posting, you fold because you figure to be behind, losing the hand would destroy you, and you still have FE after folding.

That's my (correct) opinion, anyway.