JJ, picked up a OESD on the turn

[TMFS9]

I don't have access to any stats on these players with me. The table I was on was actually a really good table with all the players at ~45/8. I really haven't been at the table long enough to get any specific reads outside of PT stats besides that both were loose passive pre and post flop.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero ?

How many outs do you give me here, and does the fact that I hold 2 J's discount the possiblity of a straight already being made.

[TMFS9]

bump

[Grisgra]

Fold. It's two bets back to you, so you're barely getting proper odds, and while it's unlikely, you could be losing to a straight already -- and if the guy has KJ and an 8 hits the river, you're not even chopping.

[Stupendous_Man]

[ QUOTE ]
both were loose passive pre and post flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


Are they loose/passive enough that they cold-call 2 with JT, QT , KJ, or KQ? The fact that you mention both are loose/passive and both wake up on the turn would lead me to believe I'm behind and my outs aren't all clean. Faced with 2 back to me and a potential cap after cold calling 2, I'm laying this down.

[TMFS9]

[ QUOTE ]
Are they loose/passive enough that they cold-call 2 with JT, QT , KJ, or KQ

[/ QUOTE ]

They would call 2 cold with worse than this, but wouldn't likely raise with any hand in this group suited or not.

[ QUOTE ]
lead me to believe I'm behind and my outs aren't all clean

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm positive I'm behind, and basically my question is how many outs do you give me. During the heat of the battle I gave myself 6.5 outs. 4 Kings, 2 8's, and .5 J's, too much? Also would you discount a being up against a possible straight because you already hold 2, if so how much.

[PassiveCaller]

If all your straight outs are good you still aren't quite getting quite the right price albeit thin. The waters are murky on the implied odds of making up the bets since you could be drawing to a chop and your J-outs are questionable here.

This leads to a fold here...

[Stupendous_Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are they loose/passive enough that they cold-call 2 with JT, QT , KJ, or KQ

[/ QUOTE ]

They would call 2 cold with worse than this, but wouldn't likely raise with any hand in this group suited or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last part is more what I meant... were they passive enough that they only call vs. 3-betting.


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lead me to believe I'm behind and my outs aren't all clean

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm positive I'm behind, and basically my question is how many outs do you give me. During the heat of the battle I gave myself 6.5 outs. 4 Kings, 2 8's, and .5 J's, too much? Also would you discount a being up against a possible straight because you already hold 2, if so how much.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would probably discount the K's as you note that they're passive enough to only call with KQ and KJ even if suited. I think the rest is fine. The chance that you're up against a made str8 I think is low, but still a possibility given two passive players are now being aggressive on the turn. I have a stronger feeling you're behind two pair on this hand.


edited: to fix typo.

[danng721]

I'd be confident that all 8 of your straight outs are good. You are against either a two pair or a set from both players. The button may have an overpair. I highly doubt you are up against a flush draw. If they as passive as you say, I don't know if they will raise with say a KQ here. At worst, I think you have 6.5 outs like you calculated.

You're getting 5.5-1 for at worst a 6-1 shot. However, you have great implied odds. It's a pretty close decision.