Hello,Players! I raised the bring-in 3/5BB when it's

[SittingBull]

folded around to a conservative player showing a "9".I had a 3-flush with a "K" showing in this 1-5 no ante game.
This player plays tigher against me than he does against most of his other opponents. He rarely bluffs. I've been locking horns with him for several years now. He's about 72 years old. A friendly gentleman who respects my play.
Win OR lose,he ALWAYS has a happy attitude.

In this case,he called the 3rd Str.3/5BB bet.
On 4th Str.,I paired my doorcard and fired away!
The "tight" player CALLED my bet!! /forums/images/icons/blush.gif
Hmmm
On 5th,he and I both seemed to have caught rags.

What would U do on 5th??

/forums/images/icons/confused.gif
Just wondering!

Sitting bull

/forums/images/icons/mad.gif check, he has 3-9'. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif Ron

[Andy B]

Bull,

Why don't you say $3 like a normal person? 3/5 BB looks kinda silly if you ask me.

It's heads-up. You've paired your door card. A tight 72-year-old who respects your play is calling you. He has Nines beaten, probably badly. All you have is a three-card flush to go with it. There's like $17 in the pot, right? I'd check and fold if he makes a $5 bet.

[SittingBull]

a pair of "K's"--NOT a pair of "9's".
Now what would U do??
Hmmm
Just wondering
Sitting Bull /forums/images/icons/ooo.gif

[SittingBull]

You didn't say if your opponent had a potential draw himself, maybe a four flush, that would have caused him to call your bet. If that's the hand you put him on bet. But if you're not pretty sure, against a tight opponent, I'd just check and fold to a bet.

[Andy B]

OK, so I misread the post. Doesn't change my answer much. Can this guy be on a draw? If not, he has you beaten, perhaps badly. The pot is pretty small, so I'd be inclined to check and fold. If he has two smaller pair, you should continue, but if he's a tight player who respects your play, he should have trips or a straight-flush draw.

The more information you give when posting a hand, the easier it is for the rest of us to comment. I know that it's hard to remember all the details of a hand, but you consistently give us a sub-minimal amount of information.

[SittingBull]

did not have a 4-flush or St8 draw.
I did not know what to put him on.

Hmmmm
So your advice would be to check and fold 5th Str.,huh??

Hmm
Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]

very little information for the posters to make an informed opinion. However,please use your imagination and arrive at a theoreti /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif cal decision. Since I'm NOT presenting sufficient data for U to arrive at a "correct decision",your reputation will NOT be damaged by a "theoretical conclusion".
I simply highlight what I consider the most important points of the play(s). The main reason is that I can't remember anything else that has transpired.
I have a poor memory. Hence,I would probably have serious problems playing with the "big kids".
Anyway ,I decided to fire again on 5th. On 6th,I improved to a 4-flush and fired again.
On 7th,I remained with "dried" K's and checked.
My opponent bet out.
What would U do on 7th, ASSUMING U had gone this far??
I know that U said U would have folded to a bet on 5th or 6th. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Happy pokering, Andy!

Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]

I should check and fold to MONROE'S bet on 5th.
However,I decided to fire on 5th . On 6th ,I improved to a 4-flush and fired again.
However,I now know,in retrospect,that it was pointless for me to semi-bluff on 6th.
But I was construing my bet as a "value bet" in case I would have connected with my flush.
So my bet was not really a semi-bluff. In addition to my flush "outs",I had 2 additional "outs" by possibly obtaining a set of "K's".
MONROE did not show any pairs on 6th.

So I believed I had a decent chance to take down the pot.
On 7th,I remained with "dried" K's and checked.
MONROE bet out.
What would U have done on 7th had U gone this far??

Happy pokering,MRB! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
Sitting Bull





Happy pokering,MRB!

Sitting Bull
/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Andy B]

Your sixth street bet is only a value bet if you have a better than 50% chance of making the winning hand. Even if Kings-up wins every time, you probably don't have a 50% chance. I'm not saying betting sixth is wrong; I'm just saying it's not a value bet. It was, I think, a semi-bluff, whether or not you thought it was at the time.

Below you said that I advocated checking and folding sixth street. This seems strange, since we haven't gotten to sixth street yet. I wouldn't fold the flush draw, assuming it was reasonably live, unless opponent showed something pretty threatening, which apparently he hadn't.

I am not one to fold on the river for one more bet when the pot is reasonably big, but I would say that this is an instance where you should do so. If he didn't have a credible draw, he must have you beaten, right?

Maybe he know you to well and that you will push a hand. So He is betting pocket Aces thru 10's. Ron Call and go to the ATM again. /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

one thing to learn from this hand is that flush draws are much less valuable in a no ante game where there are tight players. most times it may not even be worth it to play. i remember when i first started playing poker and played in some tight games at the Taj, and i am sure that my three flushes were not profitable. there is no point to raising the bring in when you have a three flush with no ante. just treat the bring in as an ante. not the toughest or most complicated poker play, but building enough of a pot to keep a multiway pot those times you make a fourflush is worth it. by raising you get into situations like this one where you need to play well against this opponent to make a profit, and playing well here includes throwing away hands that you would normally play.

Pat

[SittingBull]

advocated checking and folding on 5th IF MONROE bet 5th Str--NOT 6th.
I know that U would see the hand thru on 6th Str. since there was improvement to a 4-flush.
BTW, Part of the definition of a semi-bluff is that U believe that there is a chance that your opponent will fold if U bet/raise/check-raise.
However,in this case,I knew that MONROE would not fold.
Hence,the definition of a semi-bluff was not satisfied in this instance. So if I had no value bet,I should not have made the bet on 6th. There was really no reason for me to do so.

Happy pokering,Andy!
/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]

[SittingBull]

excellent evaluations.
On 6th , I fired another BB and checked 7th when I remained with "dried" K's.
MONROE fired into me on 7th and I called the bet.

He took it down with A's up.
He had a buried pair of A's on 3rd and connected with a second pair on 7th.

MONROE played his hand very well against me.
If he had re-raised me on 3rd,I would most likely have folded my hand.
I believe that he knew I would have folded.
Hence,he wanted to slowly drain me.
But Y did he continue playing AFTER I paired my doorcard??
I believe the reason is that I telegraphed a message by my betting pattern.
I USUALLY bet 1BB on 3rd with a big pair and 3/5BB when I do not have a big pair.
I think he knew this since he and I have locked horns for several years.
Hence,he was not convinced that I really had a set of K's.
Had I bet 1BB on 3rd with the K showing and THEN paired my doorcard,he would most likely have folded his A's.

Thanks again for your evaluation!

Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull
I hope that my head will be clear after I return from my mini-vacation to San Antonio ,Texas. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Andy B]

You should avoid predictable betting patterns against opponents who are at all observant. I think Pat is correct that you shouldn't bother raising on third, but if you do raise, you should raise as if you have a big pair, i.e., raise the same amount. Deception comes not from playing the same hand in different ways, but in playing different hands the same way.

The low-limit stud games I used to play in were structured, and you could make a double-bet on fourth street if there was an open pair. Some folks will bet small to suck people in when they have trips and bet large otherwise to drive people out. If you do this predictably, people are going to be able to play accordingly. If I bet on fourth street, I almost always bet full price, unless I check-and-fold, or (rarely) check-and-call. There are two basic scenarios where I'll bet the smaller amount. The first is when I have trips and I think that I will get no callers if I bet large but will get callers if I bet small. My opponents have to be pretty weak for me to do this. The other scenario is if I am heads-up against a decent player who I want to fold. If I bet small, he may suspect trips and fold. He might have folded for the big bet as well, but by betting small, I risk less money for the same result.