adding to the online conspiracy theories.

[TStoneMBD]

id like to first say that i find it unlikely that the major online poker sites are in any way rigged. however, i have to say that ive seen an unusual amount of royal flushes online.

i have played about 60k hands lifetime from internet play, and have been dealt 3 royal flushes. 2 of them came from back to back days. i have also been dealt several straight flushes. all from party poker. ive also witnessed countless royal flushes from other players.

i once played in a sit a few months back, and there were 2 royal flushes and 2 straight flushes dealt in the same sng. the odds of that seem astronomical.

either way, i could really care less if party deals a few extra royal flushes than statistically possible, not that they do. i just found that the likelyhood of these things are quite unlikely.

again im not trying to change anybodys viewpoints on this subject. i just thought my experiences were fairly interesting and thought id share them with anyone who cares.

[jtr]

Don't worry, it's not rigged. I've never been dealt a royal flush in a similar number of online hands. You obviously just got some of mine.

[SNOWBALL138]

I have never gotten nor even seen a Royal flush in 5 months of play online

[XChamp]

I've flopped 2 Royals in 500,000+ hands on Party. Flop a Royal, what, 1/649,740 times? Doesn't seem too out of whack to me. I will report back my results when I get in my million hand quota today.

PS- Although the first one I flopped was on the first day I signed up. That was weird.

PPS- I saw something weirder at the Turning Stone a couple years ago. I was in some crappy limit game and saw, no joke, 2 royal flushes of hearts dealt out two hands in a row with a different deck of cards (or so the dealer claimed, I don't remember the coloring). The funniest part was that anyone who made a royal flush got a free entry into a tournament that coming weekend. This meant that the floor guys came over, spent 5 minutes taking the lucky guys info down, then had to come back over 3 minutes later to do the same thing for another lucky guy at my table. No one would shut up about it for a good hour.

[OrangeKing]

I've never even seen a royal flush in a couple years of playing online. What do I have to do to activate the royal-flush script? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Patriarch]

I've never been dealt a royal flush, and have only seen one, in just under a year playing online poker.

[Mike]

Maybe B&M shuffles are not as random as thought to be...and they have the rigged shuffles?

I really do not know, but we generaly hold B & M shuffles in such high esteem and use them as the standard, maybe they are the problem and not online.

[pokerstudAA]

I have 2 royals in about 60k+ hands.

Also I took a friend to a home game not that long ago. He busted out of the tourney early but played in the cash game. He raised preflop wiht AQs and flopped a royal. Took two entire stacks on that hand. Very exciting. Live poker is clearly rigged.

[odellthurman]

Given your astounding experience with royal flushes, you ought to buy about 10 monitors and just post and fold at the bad beat jackpot tables on Party. Last night it was over 200K, so jump on this immediately, or you are just throwing money away.

[TStoneMBD]

nh

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe B&M shuffles are not as random as thought to be...and they have the rigged shuffles?

I really do not know, but we generaly hold B & M shuffles in such high esteem and use them as the standard, maybe they are the problem and not online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theoretically, hand shuffling and even machine shuffling cannot be anywhere near as random as computer generated card sequences.

As everyone here knows statistical probability and actual variance are distant cousins at best.

[dogmeat]

For whatever reason, things do seem to run in bunches. I played four months before seeing a royal flush of my own. The very next day I hit another royal flush, plus an 8-high straight flush. Since that time I have had exactly two more royals in 13 months of full-time play.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]

either way, i could really care less if party deals a few extra royal flushes than statistically possible, not that they do. i just found that the likelyhood of these things are quite unlikely.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's possible that you could get three...four...five in a row. Likely? No. Possible? Sure.

It's a well-observed fact that, when observing random events, people over-value coincidence that favors them (or stands out) and undervalue when it doesn't. In other words, you don't find yourself saying "I've been dealt nothing better than two pair 50 times in a row...how odd" because that doesn't really stand out.

[eastbay]

I played 140k hands since I bought PT and have never had a royal. I don't even remember coming close.

eastbay

[TStoneMBD]

i find this post condescending. first of all, i understand that most people in general overvalue certain random events than others, but i dont find that very prevalent in my demeanor, as i am very aware when i am running good, running bad or catching twopair 50 hands in a row thank you.

[Wally Weeks]

Since I'm pretty new to the poker world, my take may or may not be correct... However, I am a programmer (also a mathematics and psychology fan) so here's my take.

Most likely reason for your observation: your brain is trying to find patterns whether they exist or not. You probably play many more hands online and use hand tracking software (i.e. Poker Tracker, etc.). This combination of quick and easy information make it seem reasonable to you that royal flushes and straight flushes are more likely. This is especially true if you multi-table.

I'm also assuming that the random number generation algorithm (RNG) is working properly. While random numbers are not really random, they are actually pseudo random, they can be pretty damned good at reproducing randomness. (The reason for this is relatively intuitive: computers must be told what to do hence the relatively non-randomness.)

People, including myself, try to see patterns all over the place where they don't really exist...from the face on moon and Mars to grilled cheese sandwitches that look like the image of the Virgin Mary.

Also you must take into account that you might be getting more than your fair share of royal and straight flush sightings.

Regards,
Wally

P.S. In the approximately 9000 hands that have been dealt to me online, I have gotten one royal flush. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]

Most likely reason for your observation: your brain is trying to find patterns whether they exist or not. You probably play many more hands online and use hand tracking software (i.e. Poker Tracker, etc.).


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm stealing this from somewhere else on 2+2, but I've seen this pattern search argument and it really seems to apply to a lot of the 'crazy pt stats' on here. I mean, it's neat that it is a royal flush that is off on your stats, but you would've been equally surprised to see way too many str.flushes, quads , or pretty much anything. Then you would've posted it on 2+2 and fed the conspiracy.

Anyways, The chance that ONE of your PT stats is WAY off is pretty high, and you're probably really going to notice that one.

[TStoneMBD]

its clear to me that its FAR more probable that ive just received far more than my fair share of royal flushes, and have seen far more than a normal amount as well. its highly unlikely that online poker is rigged to give me extra royal flushes.

i just wanted to clarify that because you guys seem to think i believe online poker is rigged or something.

<font color="white">which it is.</font>

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]
its clear to me that its FAR more probable that ive just received far more than my fair share of royal flushes, and have seen far more than a normal amount as well. its highly unlikely that online poker is rigged to give me extra royal flushes.

i just wanted to clarify that because you guys seem to think i believe online poker is rigged or something.

<font color="blue">which it is.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Is not!

[pryor15]

couple of months ago i was dealt quads on consecutive hands live 5-handed. that was probably rigged as well. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never even seen a royal flush in a couple years of playing online. What do I have to do to activate the royal-flush script? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

update your pattern mapper n00b

[ACW]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never even seen a royal flush in a couple years of playing online. What do I have to do to activate the royal-flush script?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assumed everyone knew this.

You need to type

/system $ROYAL_FLUSH = _ENABLED_

in the chat window every time you log on.

I also recommend

/system $BAD_BEATS = _DISABLED_

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
id like to first say that i find it unlikely that the major online poker sites are in any way rigged. however, i have to say that ive seen an unusual amount of royal flushes online.

i have played about 60k hands lifetime from internet play, and have been dealt 3 royal flushes. 2 of them came from back to back days. i have also been dealt several straight flushes. all from party poker. ive also witnessed countless royal flushes from other players.

i once played in a sit a few months back, and there were 2 royal flushes and 2 straight flushes dealt in the same sng. the odds of that seem astronomical.

either way, i could really care less if party deals a few extra royal flushes than statistically possible, not that they do. i just found that the likelyhood of these things are quite unlikely.

again im not trying to change anybodys viewpoints on this subject. i just thought my experiences were fairly interesting and thought id share them with anyone who cares.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do not know why you muck up the internet and this forum with your drivel. There are people in India that would kill for an internet conection and a DOS machine and you send strings of electrons around the world about something as trivial as how many royal flushes that you have seen in your, please let me add, pittiful 60K hands online. 60K hands is nothing.

Your logic is defective. You state that you think internet poker is on the up and up but then you state that you have seen too many RF and SF. Well in your tiny sample size you have chosen to ignore the main lesson of statistical analysis: One hand of poker does not influence the next or previous hand, or the next or the next. You may see 3 SF in a row but it is not an abnormality UNLESS you attempt to sit to observe 3 SF in a row. If you were to state that tomorrow you were going to sit in a game and see 3 straight FR dealt then that would be an impressive event. I also suspect that your games are play money or stakes so low that everyone stays in with any two cards.

I saw Sklansky on TV the other night. He got AA five times. Now that is impressive but very doable. If he had stated or the obnoxious commentators had stated prior to the tourney that Sklansky would hit 5 AA then that would be impressive. By the way, I thought over all that his play of the AA's were lacking.

Your post smells of one that is looking for a social response. We here on 2 + 2 don't do that social stuff. We are to preoccupied making suttle and not so suttle comments to others in a manner that inflates our egos. I suggest if that is what you are searching for then you get an AOL account and go to one of the recipie, or home decorating boards.

[jojobinks]

buccaneer:

the word is spelled subtle. [/ego boost]

[TStoneMBD]

creating this thread was a bad idea. i take it back. people take things far too literally and arent open to potential possibilities.

im done posting here.

[LUGNUT]

I like playing video poker, and in a Jacks or Better machine, the odds of hitting a Royal Flush are 40,000 to 1. Since Texas Hold'em deals out 7 total cards, I would think this would increase the odds of seeing a Royal Flush.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
buccaneer:

the word is spelled subtle. [/ego boost]

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is the only word I crucified to that post I am doing better than usual.

[Tboner7]

I folded a would-be royal flush once preflop. I've seen 2 royals besides that in 6 months.

[jpg7n16]

I've played at least 300 hands live and I've never seen a royal flush. My deck must be rigged against me.

Sorry just had to do it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[berya]

I have had 5 royal flushes. All dealt at the Taj.

[defyodds]

I was in a game a no limit hold em 2 weeks ago friday , 8 handed and there was a pair of aces dealt along with kings, queens, jacks, and eights--- the flop came jack, ten, nine the turn was a queen and river was a seven but the eight and king were folded from the raising--harrah's in east chicago

[ravballz]

FLOP a royal, or get a royal by the river?