TPFAP

[SNOWBALL138]

I haven't read Tournament Poker for Advanced players nor have I read Suzuki's book. Are these books useful for winning STTs?

[raptor517]

no not really. 2+2 is your best resource by far. 3uo

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
no not really. 2+2 is your best resource by far. 3uo

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but TPFAP is a close second

[curtains]

TPFAP isnt a close second in my opinion. It's good, but it only covers a very small part of poker. Maybe the gap concept idea is important, but it was such an obvious idea to me when I first read the book, that I couldn't figure out why he was even giving something that everyone already understood a name. I mean to talk about something like that and also call a book "for advanced players" seemed a little contradictory to me.

Also I think Harrington's book is more valuable overall than TPFAP. TPFAP deals with too many exotic and unlikely scenarios whereras Harrington's focuses more on routine hands that you will see a lot more often.

However they are both useful, Important ideas in TPFAP (Im saying this because they are absolutely the only things of value that I can still remember now) are

1. Don't turn a good hand into 72o
2. The hand example where he has AKs on the turn last to act against two opponents, and board is Ace high with 4 to his flush, and he recommends checking.


Some people will also say the concept of keeping a short stack in on the bubble, however I think this idea is overrated. However if you understand that, you will realize how often you should be stealing in this type of situation, which is A LOT.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
Some people will also say the concept of keeping a short stack in on the bubble, however I think this idea is overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? In what way... I mean I agree that you wouldn't go to the extremes given as an example in the book..(folding QQ i believe)
But what do you think is overrated about it? I think its a key to good big stack bubble strategy

[curtains]

I think it's overrated because people overdo it, at least in the posts I see here. I mean the shortstack usually has to be very short, you have to be very large.

I play a lot of sit and go's and it's a rare case indeed where Im folding my hand to intentionally keep some small stacked player alive, whereas based on the chip EV of the hand I would do otherwise. It's happened before but it's very very rare in my opinion.

Anyway I don't really mean that it's overrated, because it teaches you some important concepts of bubble play, but I think that people take it a bit too far?

To give an example, Scuba posted a few hands, and mentioned that he was using this concept, which usually means you will be stealing a lot of blinds. Meanwhile if I was in his case I would have stolen about 3-5 times where he folded, and it seems that he partly didnt steal because he was scared someone would call him and bust? I'm really not sure, but it seemed like a faulty application of the concept.

[emonrad87]

If I remember correctly, this concept is completely irrelevant for STTs. I think the point of it was that when you are on a short table with a large stack with 2 tables left in a tourney, you don't want to knock a short stack out because then your table would combine and you would no longer be a huge stack, and you would give up the big stack advantages.

Edit - I could be wrong, or be missing another applkication of the concept, but that is what I remember from reading TPFAP recently.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway I don't really mean that it's overrated, because it teaches you some important concepts of bubble play, but I think that people take it a bit too far?

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, I just thought you meant something else.

[ QUOTE ]
To give an example, Scuba posted a few hands, and mentioned that he was using this concept, which usually means you will be stealing a lot of blinds. Meanwhile if I was in his case I would have stolen about 3-5 times where he folded, and it seems that he partly didnt steal because he was scared someone would call him and bust? I'm really not sure, but it seemed like a faulty application of the concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we seem to come to the same conclusions in that thread, I assume Scuba will take something valuable away from the discussion.

[curtains]

Yeah the concept shuold actually much more relevant for sit and go's.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Curtains:

While the Gap Concept is part of all poker, the reason it gets it's own chapter is that in tournaments the gap tends to be larger than in standard ring games. This has something to do with the two chapters "You're Broke -- You're Done," and "They're Broke -- They're Done."

Best wishes,
Mason

[Degen]

Gap Concept, Gap Concept, Gap Concept.

The whole book is pretty damned good, but I'd have to say simply understanding and utilizing the Gap Concept properly, along with a solid uderstanding of the hand rankings in HFAP will make you a winner.


Degen

[Degen]

i have to disagree

the gap concept is one of those things that seems like common sense, but it really isn't.

also a very interesting thing in that book that you didn't mention was his 'system' for a newbie to win a large MTT w/out knowing poker. if you applied that strategy to the 22/33 SNG's i'd wager you'd be a winner. and even if you didn't stick strictly to this, this therom can be a strong one for choosing when to blind steal.



Degen

[curtains]

I actually mentioned the system in my original email and then erased it because it didn't seem so relevant. I think it's a pretty terrible way to play, but it should do the job of helping players to understand that moving allin preflop can be an incredibly strong weapon.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Curtains:

While the Gap Concept is part of all poker, the reason it gets it's own chapter is that in tournaments the gap tends to be larger than in standard ring games. This has something to do with the two chapters "You're Broke -- You're Done," and "They're Broke -- They're Done."

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow Mason, I've never seen a post of yours in the STT forum, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

As this forums particular whipping boy (and pseudo salt cracka), let me be the first (or probably not first) to welcome you to the forum, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Please refrain from posting about your first 100 STT sample, or about when to fold AA pre-flop....just helpful tips I've picked up in my time here.

Yugoslav
Bwahahahahaha!