KQ hand in PP 2/4

[cachorrito]

No reads on either player. Any comments? Fold initial turn bet?

Thanks!

Also, this is my first post, so please comment on its style if you have suggestions.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (9 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(9 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

[imported_stealthcow]

with it being 9 handed i'd just call on teh flop and let everyone call. you'll get great odds on your money. the overcalls will put just as much money in the pot as if you raised.

turn is a pain. but its fine.

stealthcow-

[cassady]

I would have called the extra two bets on the turn here with the open ended straight draw. Without a read, I doubt the three bet indicates a FH.

[rmarotti]

Raising PF would make this hand a lot easier to play.

[imsickofthinkin]

You would really reraise here with KQo and a UTG call that likely has you beat??

I would have called the turn bets without a read /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising PF would make this hand a lot easier to play.

[/ QUOTE ]


Exactly. Raise this preflop. The whole hand plays differently from there.


Adam

[ckessel]

[ QUOTE ]
You would really reraise here with KQo and a UTG call that likely has you beat??

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 2/4, UTG might have limped with 27s, seriously. In fact, given the UTG limped he's likely to have a weaker holding than KQ or perhaps an average holding like ATo which you're roughly 50/50 against.

Raise preflop. Either you isolate a typical weak 2/4 player UTG or you get a bundle of folks at 2 bets each. Either way is happiness.

[imsickofthinkin]

Would you RR the UTG limper if there were no other callers and you were in MP (so less chance of getting multplie 2 bet callers)?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you RR the UTG limper if there were no other callers and you were in MP (so less chance of getting multplie 2 bet callers)?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you Re-Raise a limper? (Assuming "RR" = "reraise").



Anyway, KQo is a raising hand from anywhere: EP, MP, or LP (and sometimes the blinds).

Don't cold-call with it, though.


Adam

[cachorrito]

Thanks for the input. The consensus seems to be my #1 mistake was missing the PFR. I used to raise from early position with KQo, but in trying to find holes, I saw SSHM says call for tight (for SS) games. I've found very few tables at 2/4 that meet the loose criteria (6-8 on average seeing flop). Am I missing out if I follow the tight guidelines?

Agreed, in retrospect, a PFR would have helped my situation.

Thanks!

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the input. The consensus seems to be my #1 mistake was missing the PFR. I used to raise from early position with KQo, but in trying to find holes, I saw SSHM says call for tight (for SS) games. I've found very few tables at 2/4 that meet the loose criteria (6-8 on average seeing flop). Am I missing out if I follow the tight guidelines?

Agreed, in retrospect, a PFR would have helped my situation.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]


You are correct in that SSH recommends only calling with KQo from EP in tight games.

However, the consensus from most of the good players on this forum is that KQo and AJo should be raised from EP (although SSH recommends only limping).

I seem to remember a part in SSH, though, where Ed says the difference between raising and limping with KQo is very, very, tiny, and that his charts are based on simplicity when the plays are close.

Adam

[RacersEdge]

Hmmm...not sure that KQo is an auto raise in EP - goes against Lee Jones book also. But anyway, on the turn the hand is getting 17-2 odds if I counted right. That's enough to go for the OESD - even with FH potential to me..

[cachorrito]

At what point should an OP post results?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm...not sure that KQo is an auto raise in EP - goes against Lee Jones book also.

[/ QUOTE ]


LMAO... you should be a comedian.


Adam

P.S. For me, and many other winning players on this forum, KQo is an auto-raise from EP (even UTG).



Adam

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
At what point should an OP post results?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ask yourself this: "Do the actual results matter? That is, whatever the outcome of this specific hand, should that change the way you play this hand in the future?"


Adam

Personally, I feel that results are to be posted, they should be held off at least until the thread dies - i.e. falls below the top 25 active threads.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm...not sure that KQo is an auto raise in EP - goes against Lee Jones book also.

[/ QUOTE ]


LMAO... you should be a comedian.


Adam

P.S. For me, and many other winning players on this forum, KQo is an auto-raise from EP (even UTG).



Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what your point is - WLLHE is very similar to SSHE by Miller - without explaining as much theory. Bottom line though - neither author recommends raising KQo in EP as a rule.

Note: I do like raising it EP sometimes myself..