Turning a New Leaf

[The Yugoslavian]

I no longer will be a slave to spreadsheets. I am throwing out the myriad I have compiled in my short poker career. They are now all dead to me.

Unlike Irie (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=944865&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&vc=1), I never played poker without ROI, ITM, OOTM, placement breakdown, time of day breakdown, etc. I do not know what it feels like to be either just running good making me happy, or running bad making me sad.

I enjoy playing the game. I must, or else I would have quit by now several times. Somehow, I enjoy poker immensely more playing the right way.

I am generally happy and upbeat when I play.

Unfortunately I am generally sad and distraught (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1703504&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1) when I reflect on results and/or am entering them in – at best I am indifferent.

Therein lies the crux of my problem. I have been abusing stats past the point of addiction (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1087507&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1) – in fact, if stats were actual drugs I was taking, by this time I would have no friends, no money, no family willing to talk to me and nothing else to live for.

I’m great at sucking all significance out of my stats when they are good. I am good at even ignoring misleading implications of my stats when they are bad. But, deep down inside, I feel that I need something from looking at my stats , that I deserve some sort of relief and/or fulfillment from them, that they are the guide, which will allow me to become a ‘better’ and thus ‘happier’ poker player.

I have come to realize that I am simply wrong. Stats are stats. They do not judge, they do not communicate, and they certainly don’t owe me anything (no, not even a bigger e-phallus, Irie, /images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

I always knew there was simple wisdom that only Frozen could dispense in his unique manner. He was much closer to the correct approach for keeping stats than any one of us probably was willing to believe:

[ QUOTE ]

I don't keep any records either, I just get high and play.


[/ QUOTE ]

-- Frozen (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=809507&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1)

I am ready to let the game wash over me like a cooling waterfall under the blazing sun.

I am ready to look at HHs detached from their statistical context.

I am ready to destroy my spreadsheets...

Yugoslav

[J-Lo]

Amen!!! I've come to the conclusion that i'm gona get all my HH emailed to me, and then put them it PT, but never look at the bottom line... no more spread sheets... And when i do need to look at them, once/month, i'm going to compare them to Poker prophecy.

[LeVoodoo]

I deleted the ROI and ITM result fields from Aleo's spreadsheet a few days ago (after a rough week). I feel so much better.

[Voltron87]

The day I was able to not think about the game from a cash value point of view, from just playing the game and doing the right thing, was somewhat of an epiphany. I just booted up Party, opened 4 tables, played, listened to music, opened 4 tables when that set was done, and did so for about 5 hours one night. I didn't check the cashier box once, didn't count my wins and losses, none of that. I ended up 15 dollars. I played pretty much as good as I possibly can, a bunch of bad beats on the bubble with big stacks, but it didn't matter. I just ran through and played poker for the sake of playing good SNG poker.

This was also the time I began to be able to truly understand when I was running bad and when I was running good. Before this, I would say "I'm playing well, but I'm only up 15 dollars, yarrrrgh". Or I would say "I'm running so bad I should be up 500, yarrrrgh" when I was actually on tilt.

It takes a special kind of confidence to know you are doing the right thing and playing well, not worring about being down or up, just letting it flow. And if you obsess over stats every day it will get in the way.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Derek Smalls: We're lucky.
David St. Hubbins: Yeah.
Derek Smalls: I mean, people should be envying us, you know.
David St. Hubbins: I envy us.
Derek Smalls: Yeah.
David St. Hubbins: I do.
Derek Smalls: Me too

[/ QUOTE ]

Words to live by.

Irieguy

[Slim Pickens]

If you have the discipline to play poker, you should have the discipline to keep stats. If they get you down, don't look at them, but some day you will want them, if for no other reason, to prove to all those half-brained college students who saw the WSOP on TV and then won $50 playing like a moron at the local cardroom that you, you, are the true poker-pimp and they're all just a bunch of wannabe prankster b1tches. This is all loser-talk. Quit quitting, you big baby.

Slim

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have the discipline to play poker, you should have the discipline to keep stats. If they get you down, don't look at them, but some day you will want them, if for no other reason, to prove to all those half-brained college students who saw the WSOP on TV and then won $50 playing like a moron at the local cardroom that you, you, are the true poker-pimp and they're all just a bunch of wannabe prankster b1tches. This is all loser-talk. Quit quitting, you big baby.

Slim

[/ QUOTE ]

F-U (in the nicest way possible). That is spoken like a guy who just spent a ton of time updating a spreadsheet to keep track of this kind of stuff. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
This was also the time I began to be able to truly understand when I was running bad and when I was running good. Before this, I would say "I'm playing well, but I'm only up 15 dollars, yarrrrgh". Or I would say "I'm running so bad I should be up 500, yarrrrgh" when I was actually on tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say "shiver me timbers" when you're running hot?

[Voltron87]

LOL

I actually have said that once.

[spentrent]

I yell "SUCKA!" a lot when I'm running hot. But I dig your pirate theme more than my Shaft theme. YARRRRRGH!

You must stay at TI in Vegas as well. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[SuitedSixes]

Good decision, young Peter. This will help you out a bunch.

As long as we're turning over new leaves, I'm going to post a bet I just made with Irie as a desire to concentrate on getting ITM more:

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to make it my goal to get 38% ITM a night and see where that gets me for the week. If I come up short of 38% for the week, I'm going to go to the Candy Store (the local Christie's equivalent), order a Diet Coke (I hate that [censored]) and give the hottest girl there $20 but decline a dance telling her that she reminds me too much of my little sister (I don't have a sister), and walk out once my drink is gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

[adanthar]

This sounds +tiltEV but -IRSEV. Do you see why?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to make it my goal to get 38% ITM a night and see where that gets me for the week. If I come up short of 38% for the week, I'm going to go to the Candy Store (the local Christie's equivalent), order a Diet Coke (I hate that [censored]) and give the hottest girl there $20 but decline a dance telling her that she reminds me too much of my little sister (I don't have a sister), and walk out once my drink is gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is [censored] HILARIOUS! Take a friend with a camera phone PLEASE.

[valenzuela]

Ive been there before...u just play and u think u have a 40 ROI when u really have a 15.

[theordinaryboy]

As Disraeli once said

"there are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics"

[johnnybeef]

So Yugo is going to stop playing poker seriously...I have a prediction: Yugo will in one (1) weeks time stop posting in the stt forum leaving all of the humor to suited, skipper, myself, and occasionally irie (when he is not to busy being philosophical) and dali (when he is not too busy berating various wpt regulars). As for yugo: he will begin posting exclusively in the oot and will turn The Salt Cracker into a meaningful poster in a way that is very similar to how Luke Skywalker turns Darth Vader back over to the good side of the force. The key exception of course is that Yugo and TSC are in fact gay lovers from a former life instead of father and son from a galaxy far far away....... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
This sounds +tiltEV but -IRSEV. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's cool. I will have my HHs and cashout record from the poker sites I play on.

Yugoslav

[microbet]

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

- Homer

[dfscott]

As a relative newbie to SnGs, I thought I was the only one that felt this way.

First, I get upset because I'm ITM > 40%, but can't get enought 1st. Then, I get 1sts, but now my ROI isn't high enough. An entire night of mostly OOTM tourneys just creates incredible tilt, even when I'm all-in with the best hand over and over again.

However, I couldn't stand not tracking my stats at least somehow, and I didn't want to manually enter a ton of tournaments each month.

My solution is to autoload into PT and then at the end of each month (or a longer period, I haven't decided), just autoload them into the AM spreadsheet. That way I only get bummed periodically.

Maybe eventually, I can kick the whole ss, but this is my version of "The Patch."

[1C5]

So very true.

Looking at 15 "pink" out of the money finishes on the spreadsheet in a row is so depressing and most likely Tilt causing.

I will be looking at my stats less and less also.

[Apathy]

Irie recently wrote in a thread (sorry couldnt find the link)

"If you don't keep stats, nothing else matters"

[pooh74]

I've been getting my feet wet on the 60s turbos on stars (after forever at the 27sn turbos and 33s). I got sucked out on the bubble tonight and instead of thinking "wow, I played perfect poker and just got sucked out...that sucks" I instead thought, "wow, My ROI is gonna take a big hit because of the buy-in differential"

I agree, its madening. ROI fanatics (myself included Im sure) are like grade grubbers...they dont get an education for its own sake, but for the A at the end.

[raptor517]

oh yugo. what has become of you? please dont get disgruntled with your results. results in poker are meaningless, you know this. you are a super intelligent person, and you know that to take poker seriously, you must keep records.

maybe.. a week off or so from your statistics will make you feel better, but you know you are a winning player. you make winning decisions, and put yourself in winning situations. ive looked at your hhs, ive talked to you about strategy, and i KNOW you are a winning player. maybe all you need is a break. take a few days off. fly to dallas, play 1-2 NL with a bunch of idiots, (me included), make bank, and head home happy feeling refreshed and ready to go at the sngs again /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Irie recently wrote in a thread (sorry couldnt find the link)

"If you don't keep stats, nothing else matters"

[/ QUOTE ]

heh! Tell that to my new Benz!


(yeah, its a matchbox car....PAYED FOR BY SNG LOOT BIATCH)

[The Yugoslavian]

Dude, I said I was chuckin' the spreadsheet.....not quitting poker, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I will not pretend that I'll *never* compute statistics on my results again. But I need to experience what not having them is like.

Someone recently mentioned this quote to me.....I think it's fitting:

"He who will not apply new remedies must expect old evils." -Francis Bacon

Yugoslav

[Roman]

I have been playing sngs for a large part of a year now, and never ever have bothered to keep stats. I tried for a week or two to input my results into PT, but staring at my data just turned my focus away from where it was really important:my game. I honestly feel that this whole forum is way too obsesed with stats like ROI and not enough at getting better at the game you play.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing sngs for a large part of a year now, and never ever have bothered to keep stats. I tried for a week or two to input my results into PT, but staring at my data just turned my focus away from where it was really important:my game. I honestly feel that this whole forum is way too obsesed with stats like ROI and not enough at getting better at the game you play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that many people are overly obsessed about short term stats and place too much emphasis on their ROI over 100 SNGs only, etc.

But I feel you are doing yourself a great diservice by not keeping stats. In many ways it is tantamime to only looking at one of your holecards when more information is readily available to you.

In a game of incomplete information there is no reason to handicap yourself on a consistent basis...on or off thet table.

[Roman]

what edge to these statistics provide?

[raptor517]

people definitely put way too much emphasis on short term statistics. WAY too much. i finally got thru my first 101 215s, with an roi at 23.4% and an itm at 40.6%. does this mean that i should jump up and start 12 tabling them? hell no. it doesnt even mean i can beat them. all it means is i was running well for a day and made some money. does it give me hope? of course it does, but im not gonna write home about it. holla

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, I said I was chuckin' the spreadsheet.....not quitting poker, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I will not pretend that I'll *never* compute statistics on my results again. But I need to experience what not having them is like.

Someone recently mentioned this quote to me.....I think it's fitting:

"He who will not apply new remedies must expect old evils." -Francis Bacon

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

. . . mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .everything tastes better with bacon. .

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
people definitely put way too much emphasis on short term statistics. WAY too much. i finally got thru my first 101 215s, with an roi at 23.4% and an itm at 40.6%. does this mean that i should jump up and start 12 tabling them? hell no. it doesnt even mean i can beat them. all it means is i was running well for a day and made some money. does it give me hope? of course it does, but im not gonna write home about it. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I know these things, believe me, I know them when I look at my statistics.

Yet.....I *feel* something quite different.

It is important that I get over my dependence on statistics. Several times already tonight I've had a strong itch to go start entering my finishes into a spreadsheet....hoping to find reassurance there.

The spreadsheet will be a crutch to me no longer.

Yugoslav

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
what edge to these statistics provide?

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed...not much.

I know I am a winning player when my BR increases gradually over time.

I keep notes on other players on PS (dont see enough repeatedly to make this worthwhile even).

How can place distribution help you unless you are a rank and file newbie?

Why do I keep stats? Its fun...and self affirming.

Like I said before, I dont need to prove anything to myself or others re: ROI...I just look at the cashier window.

(ahh sh\t...well, Ive got 918 fpps and 1000 in play money, oh well, u get the picture)

[raptor517]

power too ya then yugo. hope it works out for ya /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
people definitely put way too much emphasis on short term statistics. WAY too much. i finally got thru my first 101 215s, with an roi at 23.4% and an itm at 40.6%. does this mean that i should jump up and start 12 tabling them? hell no. it doesnt even mean i can beat them. all it means is i was running well for a day and made some money. does it give me hope? of course it does, but im not gonna write home about it. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

at least you recouped the paigow losses...nh, gg

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

at least you recouped the paigow losses...nh, gg

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean replenish his Pai Gow bankroll?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav
Who doesn't think the Commerce has seen the last of The Raptor...

[raptor517]

dear god dont bring up pai gow. DAMN U USHER!!! bah, i should have played 100-200 like i wanted too.. woulda felt much better about losing 4k there. blah. 3uo

[NegativeEV]

Guys like you and I and most on this forum are very new to SnG's and poker in general. We are not the same players now that we were 6, 3, or even 1 month ago. Stats from those periods are not good indicators of future success and can be disheartening. Since really learning how to play and experiencing a good amount of success I've been destroying my old records about once per quarter. I've destroyed sets of 500 SnGs with 30% ROI and sets of 500 with a 0% ROI happily as I see it as a fresh new start and it has been very good for me mentally. Do whatever keeps you motivated and in the best state of mind, but realize that old stats are pretty meaningless when you are making important improvements early in your playing career.

[pokerlaw]

My name is Mike, and i am a pokerholic. I have been hooked since july, and I an entirely different SNG player now (mad props to 2+2=5) than I was merely one month ago, let alone 9 months ago. I read the books, kept the spreadsheets, played the odds, did all that [censored] arguably to a fault. I find my past poker statistics to be amusing, mainly because I kept good notes on my final hands/downfall. I was awful. Over time, I was happy b/c I was calling with statistical advantages in the quality of the hand, quality pot odds, and good reads - but in untimely situations to justify due to the fact that only 3 people make money. Stats sometimes blinded me to noticing the little nuances I made in my game everyday that give me an edge over the average fish and lead me down the long and grueling path to being great at this game. I just wanna be really, really good; cause i love this [censored]. With that said, I trust my gut as to how I am running more than any statistic you can throw at me. Even EV.

[lehighguy]

Win stats can be pretty pointless. They don't help you win after all.

But please don't get rid of important data on your opponents like VPIP and showdown percentages and notes and such. Those do help you win.

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
My solution is to autoload into PT and then at the end of each month (or a longer period, I haven't decided), just autoload them into the AM spreadsheet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just downloaded AM's spreadsheet, and can't figure out how to do this. Could you please explain how you do this?

[PrayingMantis]

As a non-American, I sometimes feel that Americans, in general, have this obsession over stats, in many fields, poker included. For instance, stats are a very important factor in all the popular American sports, while in Europe (and Israel), you find that in the most popular sport, i.e, football (soccer for you...), stats won't usually tell you too much about anything, and people are rarely interested in them. Of course they have some meaning, but much much smaller than in basketball or american football, for instance.

I keep stats, but I try no to get obsessed about them. It is much more important for me to think about the games I play in an "abstract" manner, tactically and strategically, rather than simply trying to "improve my ROI/ITM/$H", as a "mission". Your stats are just a result of the way you play: they are the bottom-line information, but the tools you need in order to *improve* your game are very rarely there. In this sense, your stats are only the symptoms - they are not the disease (that's if you're running bad /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

[kyro]

To each their own. I personally like the spreadsheet. It's comforting to me.

[skipperbob]

I used to have a vanity plate that read "NEWBOB"...A friend got it for me because he said that I "turned over more new leaves than a Japanese gardener"....PS: the only stat that matters is bankroll

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My solution is to autoload into PT and then at the end of each month (or a longer period, I haven't decided), just autoload them into the AM spreadsheet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just downloaded AM's spreadsheet, and can't figure out how to do this. Could you please explain how you do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not in there now -- it's a project I'm working on. Right now, I'm doing some final testing. I'll probably recruit a few people test it out before throwing it out there for general consumption.

If you're interested, PM me and I'll send you a copy when it's ready for testing (probably in about a week).

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
To each their own. I personally like the spreadsheet. It's <font color="red"> comforting </font> to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this has been the whole problem for me.

Also, there shouldn't really be any like or dislike of a spreadsheet. You probably mean you think it's a neat tool - that is fine. The problem arises when one starts investing oneself (even a little bit) in a spreadsheet. There should just be a spreadsheet, which contains one's stats, which in turn gives one pseudo-useful information about one's results.

FWIW several times yesterday I had a *very strong* urge to look at my finishes and start entering stats somewhere, thankfully, there was nowhere to put them, /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

It certainly was a brand new feeling ending my playing for the evening and having no clue how my results impacted a spreadsheet or even what my results really were. I played fairly well and was called an idiot more than enough to know that I was playing the right way, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

A great weight has been lifted and I am eager to experience more stat-free sessions going forward, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav

[zaphod]

Will you keep us updated on how much your ROI has improved by not keeping track of your results?

[sofere]

Yugo...are you goin cold turkey or are you on the patch?

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Will you keep us updated on how much your ROI has improved by not keeping track of your results?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the funniest post in this thread.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
F-U (in the nicest way possible). That is spoken like a guy who just spent a ton of time updating a spreadsheet to keep track of this kind of stuff. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The last time someone said "FU in the nicest way possible" to me it cost me ten bucks, but it was well worth it.

It is refreshing to see someone placing too little value on statistics than the usual too much value. The ratio of "55-tournament stat freak-out" posts to "statistics are meaningless" posts is too many. A lot of people ask questions only because they want affirmation of their personal opinions, without a shred of objectivity. Doctors must see this all the time with patients that come in with a medical problem and then argue with the doctor about the diagnosis.

That being said, I still think it's negligent to give up on statistics while expecting to improve or even maintain a level of performance in poker. If it bothers you to look at ROI/ITM and such, don't do it. I look at mine every week or so, no more, and then usually only as a matter of interest. Now that the AM sheet will autorecord, I don't even have to watch all those pink boxes pop up. Yugo, if you're going to quit looking at your stats, fine. It's probably +$EV (at least in the short term) from the psychological factors. Just don't give up keeping them as I don't doubt you'll want them for something someday.

Slim

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
Will you keep us updated on how much your ROI has improved by not keeping track of your results?

[/ QUOTE ]

gg

[1C5]

How does the spreadsheet autorecord?

I hate seeing all those pink boxes. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Slim Pickens]

try over here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2055745&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

It would be a shame to hijack a thread about ditching recorkeeping with a discussion on how to keep records.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

That being said, I still think it's negligent to give up on statistics while expecting to improve or even maintain a level of performance in poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is simply wrong, IMHO.

[ QUOTE ]

If it bothers you to look at ROI/ITM and such, don't do it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I have a problem, the first step is admitting that I have this problem. If I could simply not look at my spreadsheet, then there would be no problem.

[ QUOTE ]

Now that the AM sheet will autorecord, I don't even have to watch all those pink boxes pop up.


[/ QUOTE ]

This would help...but not be sufficient for me to stop looking at my spreadsheet.

[ QUOTE ]

Yugo, if you're going to quit looking at your stats, fine. It's probably +$EV (at least in the short term) from the psychological factors. Just don't give up keeping them as I don't doubt you'll want them for something someday.

Slim

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your concern I suppose. However, as I said before, I will keep my HHs. These HHs *do* contain my results.

Yugoslav

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Will you keep us updated on how much your ROI has improved by not keeping track of your results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yogi would be impressed

[AA suited]

hm.. i'm completely the opposite. Poketracker saved my sanity.

with all the loses my new acct was accumlating, plus 2 batches of 18 OTM, i was going in a downward spiral.

my combined itm dropped to below 35%, my roi below 10% since i started 6 tabling.

then i decided to breakup the stats, and see what my old and new acct were individually doing.

my old acct still 40% itm and 25% roi.

my new acct was 18% itm, and -50% roi /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

but yeah, i'm going to stop looking at itm and roi on a daily basis. i'm probably just going to import hh on a weekly basis.

hm.. or should i just write down how much $ i have in my acct at 11:59pm every Sat? and use that as my comparison?

(and no, i havent read everything in this long ass thread. and subthreads with all those links. /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

[GrekeHaus]

Spreadsheets are for the weak. I've got the plan that will get your game from -ROI to amazing in no time.

First, you get a life-size cardboard cutout of some hot naked chick (or naked dude, if that's what floats your boat...cause I know it is). Then, you get a life size model of some clothes and cut it into pieces and stick it onto her so that she's now clothed.

Now, everytime you win a SNG you peel a section! Before you know it, you'll be a monster AND you'll have a life-size naked chick (or dude) in your room.

Honestly, what will inspire you to play better. Typing a 1 on your computer or taking some chick's clothes off?

After a few months of this, you'll have enough money to hire a real naked chick and you can peel off her clothes every time you win a SNG.

P.S. I'm not gonna lie. I may have stolen this idea from some famouse movie.

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]
Derek Smalls: We're lucky.
David St. Hubbins: Yeah.
Derek Smalls: I mean, people should be envying us, you know.
David St. Hubbins: I envy us.
Derek Smalls: Yeah.
David St. Hubbins: I do.
Derek Smalls: Me too

[/ QUOTE ]

"I have no one to envy. I envy you having me to envy."

[Hood]

*cough* (http://sng.pokercomment.com)

:P

[zaphod]

Download it now. This program is excellent!

[BradleyT]

Many of us were able to win at omaha and o/8 without keeping stats. When PTOmaha came out it didn't have any type of profound effect except it confirmed you could win a hell of a lot more BB/100 in omaha and o/8 than at holdem at the same limits.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Many of us were able to win at omaha and o/8 without keeping stats. When PTOmaha came out it didn't have any type of profound effect except it confirmed you could win a hell of a lot more BB/100 in omaha and o/8 than at holdem at the same limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always wondered if Omaha was profitable from an hourly perspective. It's clearly more profitable on a BB/100 basis, but I always had trouble finding any decent games.