AQs hand

[Chris Daddy Cool]

6 handed party 15/30 table

i donk utg with A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, utg+1 donks, button donks, sb completes, bb checks

flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

sb checks. bb checks. i bet. utg+1 calls, button raises. sb folds. bb folds. i 3-bet. utg+1 calls. button calls.

turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

i bet. utg+1 calls. button calls.

river: Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

i bet. utg+1 calls. button raises. who 3-bets?

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
who 3-bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

A donk.

[oreogod]

Tempting, but I dont. But then again, I havent played many short handed tables (on purpose anyway).

I think u played the hand well though.

And I only say tempting as the queen is both lovely and villianous in her appearence. Dont fall to her seductions!

EDIT: I was going to ask about preflop, but thats been addressed.

[DMBFan23]

hook me up with some insight on your limp UTG at a 6 handed table? this was a limp reraise, no? what hands are you using AQs to cover for? JTs? 44?

anyways, I am a puss so I don't 3 bet the river. there are way more ways for him to have a flush than a Q, and his play could be consistent with both.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

yeah it was a failed limp reraise. i do these things from time to time with various hands every once in a while

[DMBFan23]

do you limp UTG with anything else, or are these guys not observant enough to play abdul style?

[That guy]

You have represented a Q well, 3-donking here beats what that is reasonable?? KQ only?

[chief444]

At first I thought overcall but now I'm thinking 3-bet for these reasons:

1) I still think you're ahead of the button.
2) I think you can fold to a cap. (who disagrees btw?)
3) I think a flush just calls a lot of the time with the board pairing anyway.
4) UTG+1 isn't as likely to overcall with an 8 or whatever he holds as I first thought. Could even be a flush afraid of the FH but who knows. Either way, I think if he holds a weaker hand without a Q even an idiot realizes it's no good at this point.
5) Button will pay off with a weaker Q.
6) I'm a LAG.

[nolanfan34]

I don't know how often people try to make the free card play at 15-30, but it certainly looks like the button played it like a flush draw. I'd just call on the river.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
anyways, I am a puss so I don't 3 bet the river. there are way more ways for him to have a flush than a Q, and his play could be consistent with both.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are there? Not being sarcastic. I was thinking it's the other way around. But I guess not if he's playing any two suited.

36 flush combos right? (8+7+6+...+1)
12 club combos then with that Q. But only 9 that we beat or that don't raise the turn.
15 more of Q9,QT,QJ,KQ,AQ

Yeah, even ignoring what's raised preflop and what isn't you're right. I change my vote to call.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
2) I think you can fold to a cap. (who disagrees btw?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont' think you can fold to a cap here. Put it this way, if he will cap a flush on a paired board, that also means he could cap trips on a flush board.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
2) I think you can fold to a cap. (who disagrees btw?)


[/ QUOTE ]

I do. Remember, CDC limped, so it is conceivable that button has CDC on QTs or some other weak Q, or maybe not a Q at all.

I like a call because (a) if you are capped, it is hard to fold but you are likely beaten (b) if you just call, the monkey in the middle will likely call one more closing the action and you likely have him beaten. If you 3-bet, he's gonna ditch his hand. IMO calling wins you the most when you're ahead and loses you the least when you're beaten. But I'm retarded.

[chief444]

I changed my mind after thinking about the combos anyway. If you feel the need to call a cap then it's a definite call, IMO.

I think there's a bit of a difference beween capping a flush on a paired board and capping trips on a flush board, that's obviously also paired. Just my opinion. At least in this case anyway when it's top pair and you haven't slowed down. I don't think either get capped often which is why I thought you could fold. But I think just calling the raise in the first place is better now since DMB pointed out that a flush is really just as likely or more likely than a Q, as far as combinations go.

[DMBFan23]

that wasn't based on any hard and fast analysis, that was just me messing around with 1 Q left versus a crapload of diamonds. I like your argument for raising if we can put hero on a decent range of suited hands != {any two suited}.

but, I think if it's equal I'd rather take the line that gets me to showdown most often versus an unknown. weak tight? maybe.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
weak tight? maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah.

[ QUOTE ]
ugly?

[/ QUOTE ]

of unreal proportion.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
but, I think if it's equal I'd rather take the line that gets me to showdown most often versus an unknown. weak tight? maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. I didn't exactly put much thought into the ranges I listed. Just enough to see that it's close enough that I like calling better.

[PokerBob]

Is it because he doesn't matter and I'm the only donk who thinks he does?

[chief444]

I mentioned him in my first response. I don't think he's likely to overcall after the raise though...was my general feeling. But it needs to be considered, yes.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned him in my first response. I don't think he's likely to overcall after the raise though...was my general feeling. But it needs to be considered, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

He called one bet when he WASN'T closing the action. I find it hard to believe he'll fold for one more when he is.

[oreogod]

Chief,

Wouldnt the last round of combos u have for the random Q pairings wouldnt it be about 22 instead of 15?

So we'd have:
36 Flush
12 Club with Q
22 combos (10 spade and 12 hearts ??)

that maybe wrong, but its what I come up with. Im in a rush out the door, so it may be just that, rushed in my head, but I felt sure thats what I was getting.

[chief444]

Maybe. When I said not likely I was thinking like 35-40% not likely. Maybe though.

[chief444]

Actually it would be 14. I forgot to subtract CDC's Ace. It's only three Q9's, three QT's, etc because the fourth is included with the club combos. Again though, this range wasn't exactly thought out in real detail. Just enough to change my mind.

Edit...the range I'm listing is just Q9-QA, Qxs. Just to give myself a quick idea of how likely a Q may be compared to a flush. But as DMB pointed out Qxs is a little more likely in the range than "any two suited". I still think calling is fine better though with the other opponent in.

[oreogod]

Christ u listed it right there in plain sight in the 1st place. I was going the whole range from Q2-AQ. Yeah you're right, 14.

Anybody have a dunce cap? (No links to FatChicksInPartyHats please.)

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody have a dunce cap? (No links to FatChicksInPartyHats please.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it weird that I have a tremendous urge to check this site out now?

[oreogod]

So its what 39-23 he has a flush (and Qs we dont beat) compared to a Q (going club combos, Q9 and above and the ones that we can beat).

I think u should call the river. Its about 1.7:1 that you are beat. To close to fold I think. 42 percent u take it down.

Right? Or is that another F'ed up numerical answer by moi? (I wouldnt put it past my self today)

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anybody have a dunce cap? (No links to FatChicksInPartyHats please.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it weird that I have a tremendous urge to check this site out now?

[/ QUOTE ]

So u got me laughing, happy? Lol. U ever seen that ugly people website...if you're having a bad poker day u should check that site out, hey it helps me feel better about myself.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned him in my first response. I don't think he's likely to overcall after the raise though...was my general feeling. But it needs to be considered, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

His hand looks a lot like Qx or some pair.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
who 3-bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

A donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned him in my first response. I don't think he's likely to overcall after the raise though...was my general feeling. But it needs to be considered, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

His hand looks a lot like Qx or some pair.

[/ QUOTE ]


why?

EDIT: oh the overcaller, nevermind

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
His hand looks a lot like Qx or some pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. And my thought is if he does call you're more likely to lose the pot anyway because some pair likely folds. But maybe I'm giving him to much credit. I've never played 15/30.

[chief444]

A flush is actually a possibility for UTG+1 here I think as well.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
A flush is actually a possibility for UTG+1 here I think as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remote IMO, as he'd have raised the frop. My guess is UTG+1 is a massive donk.

[bakku]

3-betting here sucks.