Is Party Poker really THAT FISHY?

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
30/3. Villian has been very tight so far. Nothing to reading except a lot of folding.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t2350)
Hero (t1020)
BB (t740)
UTG (t650)
MP (t1370)
CO (t1870)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t650 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

I stole the quote from a Phil Van Sexton thread - I was gonna hijack his thread, but decided to start my own instead.
I think this points out one of the big problems with Party Poker.

Look at the chip stacks - you are 6 handed, with no real chip leader, and most players are between 3-7xBB.

This takes away a lot of poker playing, and IMO helps the fish out some.

This isn't the first post I've seen like this the last few days, so I'm wondering, are there enough big fish, compared to other sites to make this still +EV.

I like the deeper stacks, and where I play will still see plenty of people call all ins with 88 with 3 overs on the board, raise and call with a low flush on a 4 flush board, etc.

Plenty of fishy play elsewhere, plus deeper stacks seems to let me play better poker.

So is party really that worth it to play with half the stack?

[Unarmed]

Hourly rate

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

This takes away a lot of poker playing


[/ QUOTE ]

Short stack poker is its own skill.

The overall edges may be smaller but the shortened time per game helps make up for that.

eastbay

[jah0550]

Party allows you the most $ per hour. The average SNG lasts between 40-50 minutes. On Stars however, a SNG might last upwards of an hour and a half to 1:45. Not only that Party is closing on 80,000 players nightly. I don't know any other website that is even close to this volume of people. With that high amount of people, you know that there has to be more fish there than at another site like Stars. I have switched from Party to Stars, only to switch back after about 50 tournies. It just takes too long to play a SNG on Stars. Party is just knowing when to push and when not to. I'd say that there is a hell of a lot more "poker" at Stars than Party, because after level 5 or so it is an all-in fest. Just my 2 cents...

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Party allows you the most $ per hour. The average SNG lasts between 40-50 minutes. On Stars however, a SNG might last upwards of an hour and a half to 1:45. Not only that Party is closing on 80,000 players nightly. I don't know any other website that is even close to this volume of people. With that high amount of people, you know that there has to be more fish there than at another site like Stars. I have switched from Party to Stars, only to switch back after about 50 tournies. It just takes too long to play a SNG on Stars. Party is just knowing when to push and when not to. I'd say that there is a hell of a lot more "poker" at Stars than Party, because after level 5 or so it is an all-in fest. Just my 2 cents...

[/ QUOTE ]

1:30 to 1:45 is a very long time.

I play on pokerroom, and I would say most last about an hour - maybe 1:15.

A little slower, and I don't have enough SnGs to post a meaningful ROI or ITM yet, but I have to think there is an equation about a little longer for SnG, but a bit higher ROI.

[jah0550]

How many players are online at Pokerroom nightly? I'll bet it isn't even 1/2 of what Party has. Have you ever tried Party before? If not, I would highly suggest giving it a shot. Grab your fish flakes and watch how easily they come up to you. At lower buy-ins, people are almost begging you to take their money.

[Scuba Chuck]

You know, I wrote this long response as to my stats, hourly earn, and the power you have over the fishes in short stack play. But then, I decided I would prefer you stay away from Party Poker. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sam T.]

I'm not sure I would agree that there is more poker at Stars, but it is a different KIND of poker - less nuanced to be sure, but it's still poker. At Party, unless you have a huge stack, the most important (only?) factor is aggression, and Party is profitable because most players don't realize this - they play the cards rather than position and situation. It is a brawl, and the way to win is to hit first and hit hard. And when the villains are down, hit them again.

On Stars there is room for more thoughtful, even delicate, play. Methinks I shall attempt a check-raise here. Do I dare to stop-and-go? Prithee, shall I value bet or check to induce a bluff? It is a fencing match. You get to know your opponents, and after you have determined his weaknesses, you go for the kill.

In each case, the object is the same, but you need a different set of skills.

I would be curious if anyone has stats comparing Stars Tubos and Party. That's the more appropriate comparison, I think.

Sam

[Walter Pullis]

I'd fold here, but maybe I'm a weak fish

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
This takes away a lot of poker playing, and IMO helps the fish out some.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all-in poker. "The System" in TPFAP is based exactly on this.

The only problem here is hourly rate considerations, at least for the low buy-in players. I don't know about the $100 and $200 gang, maybe it's better for them to play a softer structure that rewards good post-flop play.

[LeVoodoo]

Party allows you to see all hand histories, including opponents hands, correct?
I thought I had read that in another thread, if so, this makes switching to PP very tempting.

[eastbay]

Only if there's a showdown. You don't just see everybody's cards, period.

eastbay

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
How many players are online at Pokerroom nightly? I'll bet it isn't even 1/2 of what Party has. Have you ever tried Party before? If not, I would highly suggest giving it a shot. Grab your fish flakes and watch how easily they come up to you. At lower buy-ins, people are almost begging you to take their money.

[/ QUOTE ]


I tried party, and I know it's fishy, but I left cause I had trouble adjusting to the 800 starting stacks, and the smaller buy in for Pot Limit games. I know they have switched the PL buy in, but I have still yet to return.

I also know that there are only about 10-12,000 players on line most nights, which pales to party, but still plenty of fish.

I will try and post some really "fishy" hands tonight when I get home, but I know one from the other night -

3rd hand, I push all in from the button with AA(I like that move before people get a read on me). I get called by a guy who with 77, and OVERCALLED by a guy who had J9s.

So there are plenty of fish at all places.

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
Only if there's a showdown. You don't just see everybody's cards, period.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually find this tool to be very useful, and not just in those instances where I get to see what the villian lost with after calling a river value bet. It's great for quickly skimming over a hand history at one table after having all of your attention focused at a play on another.

Me like.

[LeVoodoo]

[ QUOTE ]
Only if there's a showdown. You don't just see everybody's cards, period.
eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you need to be a part of the showdown to look them up, or is it any and all showdowns that occur at your table?

[kspade]

[ QUOTE ]
Only if there's a showdown. You don't just see everybody's cards, period.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

When requesting hand histories that were sent to your email, UB used to show the winning hand, whether it was in a showdown or not. Unfortunately they stopped doing this. /images/graemlins/frown.gif