KQo with a crowd. Boring turn? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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BigEndian

04-05-2005, 09:45 AM

Can't complain about this table. What would you do on the turn and why?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: BigEndian is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, BigEndian raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, BigEndian checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, BigEndian...

- Jim

mannika

04-05-2005, 09:52 AM

I just call here, pot is laying you odds to try for the OESD, and I think if you raise you run a significant risk of being 3-bet. You also have to worry about two to act behind you, but I think you're probably okay.

27offsooot

04-05-2005, 09:53 AM

Call. You have the odds to chase and getting 3-bet by a 9 would suck and i don't think a semi-bluff will work often enough.

PokerProdigy

04-05-2005, 09:54 AM

I think calling the turn is the best play, because you have an open ended straight and don't mind customers, plus if you raise here and he has a nine, you may get re-raised which would suck.

einbert

04-05-2005, 09:56 AM

Against unknowns I call and I don't think it's particularly close.

PokerBob

04-05-2005, 09:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can't complain about this table. What would you do on the turn and why?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: BigEndian is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, BigEndian raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, BigEndian checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, BigEndian...

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO this is tough. A c/r may be coming here from BB, which would really suck. The way I see it, you have 4 outs to all the pot, and 1.5-2 outs to half of it. A K or Q is not gonna make you feel really good. I think I call here, but I have no idea if it is correct. With the pot as small as it is, a fold may be better. I guess what I'm saying is, "I have no clue."

BigEndian

04-05-2005, 10:05 AM

How often do you think a player has a 9 here vs a pair/2-pair? If they have a 9, raising is wrong. If they have a pair, raising is right. If they have 2-pair, raising is wrong, but you will very rarely get 3-bet.

- Jim

BigEndian

04-05-2005, 10:07 AM

I don't think a fold is right at all. Even if it gets capped 3-ways with you calling in between, you have to keep calling.

- Jim

einbert

04-05-2005, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If they have a 9, raising is wrong. If they have a pair, raising is right.
- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. You don't have an equity edge against one pair hands. Now if you have significant evidence that a raise will often win the pot UI, that's fine. But you're getting threebet by a 9 here almost always, and I don't think you're taking the hand down UI. Plus there is still BB to worry about. You definitely don't have an equity edge in a 2- or 3- way pot though, and you're going to have to have a LOT of fold equity to make up for your disparity in equity. And I don't think you have that huge amount of FE here.

einbert

04-05-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a fold is right at all. Even if it gets capped 3-ways with you calling in between, you have to keep calling.

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, a fold cannot be right here.

PokerBob

04-05-2005, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a fold is right at all. Even if it gets capped 3-ways with you calling in between, you have to keep calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK.

CallMeIshmael

04-05-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I call and I don't think it's particularly close.

[/ QUOTE ]

BigEndian

04-05-2005, 10:54 AM

I don't have an equity edge over a one pair hand, true. But the raise wouldn't be to push my edge against a one pair hand, it'd be to improve my chances of winning should a Q or K fall by closing out the field behind me.

There's also the possibility that UTG+2 has one of two flush draws. I can't bet again unimproved if I do raise though, even heads-up. I agree that there is pretty much zero folding equity on this board against UTG+2.

- Jim