Bad overcall with TT?

[SNOWBALL138]

I'm thinking that it was a bad call, and I'm not trying to be results oriented either. Anyone else think this was a bad call?


***** Hand History for Game 1848065103 *****
NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:11028238 Level:6 Blinds(150/300) - Tuesday, April 05, 07:59:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 35249 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: RedBloch ( $1788 )
Seat 4: RollYerOwn ( $1950 )
Seat 5: strictlyluck ( $1579 )
Seat 7: KampnagelKid ( $1533 )
Seat 8: jfro3850 ( $1150 )
Trny:11028238 Level:6
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RedBloch [ Ts Tc ]
RollYerOwn is all-In [1950]
strictlyluck folds.
KampnagelKid is all-In [1533]
jfro3850 folds.
RedBloch is all-In [1488]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 4c, As ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
** Dealing River ** [ Kh ]
RollYerOwn shows [ Kc, Qh ] a pair of kings.
KampnagelKid shows [ 9h, 9s ] a pair of nines.
RedBloch shows [ Ts, Tc ] a pair of tens.
KampnagelKid finished in fifth place.
RedBloch finished in fourth place.
RollYerOwn wins 162 chips from side pot #2 with a pair of kings.
RollYerOwn wins 510 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of kings.
RollYerOwn wins 4749 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.
very nice hit!
RedBloch has left the table.
KampnagelKid has left the table.

[LeVoodoo]

I call one, not two pushes.

[SNOWBALL138]

Here's why it MIGHT have been a good call. I'm not sure

I figured that I would win about half the time, ending up with half the chips in play, and then go on to win first about half the time, and winning second 30 percent of the time, and winning third 20 percent of the time.

If I didn't call, I figure to be ITM about 50 percent of the time, winning mostly third place with the occasional 2nd and third place.

In other words, this was a classic case of playing for first.

[Patriarch]

Ditto.

Most of the overcards to your pair are probably going to bust you, and you might already be behind to AA-JJ.

[SNOWBALL138]

Correction: No way was I going to win this hand 50 percent of the time or more.

[SNOWBALL138]

Everyone at the table was so shortstacked that the range of push hands I was up against was going to be huge. I wouldn't have been surprised to run into 55 and K9

[SNOWBALL138]

Everyone at the table is down to like 6x BB, so the range of push hands is a lot wider than AA-JJ, AK-10, KQ-J.
I wouldn't have been that surprised to run into 22, and A8 in this spot.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone at the table is down to like 6x BB, so the range of push hands is a lot wider than AA-JJ, AK-10, KQ-J.
I wouldn't have been that surprised to run into 22, and A8 in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]


That is true - but then what is the range of call hands to the push?

The push hands can be wide, but the call hands are a lot slimmer.

Between the 2 combined, I don't think your good very often here.

[SNOWBALL138]

Would you fold JJ?

[jah0550]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, this was a classic case of playing for first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or a case of calling all of your chips off.

[tsevier]

I am by no means an expert, but my thinking is...

If you fold here you are going to be 4 handed in a tie for second with one significantly shorter stack in 4th. You can probably pick a better spot where you are the aggressor to pick up blinds without the risk of going broke against 2 all ins.

I would probably fold here. My calling range would be something like A-K and pairs Qs and up. It would also depend on my reads of the other players. But I'm just a newbie so feel free to ignore and/or flame.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you fold JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would I? or Should I?

On a good thinking day - I fold JJ every time.

I have to think the push from that early position is at least Ax or a PP. The Call as I said is a tighter range - we are talking PP JJ+ to AK, AQ.

As the 3rd to enter this pot, I think I'm only coming in with QQ, KK, AA and maybe AKs.

Also - just to add discussion, I think a key point of this hand, is that all 3 chip stacks are about equal. If either the pusher, or the first caller were signifcantly short stacked, or you are very short stacked, I think there is more merit to an overcall.

But being equal stacks I pick a better place than 3rd in the pot.