Face Up Hold'Em

[badonkadonk]

I thought about this last night while sleeping.

What if there was a variation of Texas Hold'Em where it was played face-up. Would you play it?

Obviously it would come down to math. If you were able to calculate the odds more accurately than other players and bet the right amount so opponents would be making mistakes to call your bets then you could have a great advantage. Do you think this advantage would be greater than just playing regularly? Once you reach a certain limit though everyone would be relatively equal. But I imagine you could have a great advantage over real fish at lower levels.

Also in tournament play or no limit you could really use your 'gamble' to your advantage. Say you pick up JTs and you look around the table and the next best hand is 66. Do you think if you went all-in that he would call if it meant his tournament life? He should, but this is where you have to know your opponents and how much you can push them around on close bets.

[reubenf]

I thought about this a little before. Betting on the river would be completely pointless, but honestly it's mostly a preflop game. Your winnings would likely be far more determined by the cards you catch than your skill. No-limit would surely be a waste of time. Even if you're better at all the odds than anyone else, it seems to me you'd need a pretty huge bankroll to play this game NL.

Maybe you could reveal just one of your cards, and not until the flop. Maybe before betting on the flop, maybe after betting on the flop, or maybe as you make your first choice on the flop.

[BriPlay]

hehe..interesting
ive thought that it might be nice to do this in say nolimit tourney..reraise with big bet...tehn flip over your cards..with AA whose gonna call? otherwise seems you always get called.
Brian

[PapaSan]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />

Say you pick up JTs and you look around the table and the next best hand is 66. Do you think if you went all-in that he would call if it meant his tournament life? He should, but this is where you have to know your opponents and how much you can push them around on close bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Js Ts 883543 51.60 817414 47.74 11347 0.66 0.519
6s 6d 817414 47.74 883543 51.60 11347 0.66 0.481

I think your game would be awesome when do u want to play me?

[royaltrux]

No offense but this is the silliest thing I have ever heard of. What's the point?

[badonkadonk]

[ QUOTE ]


cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Js Ts 883543 51.60 817414 47.74 11347 0.66 0.519
6s 6d 817414 47.74 883543 51.60 11347 0.66 0.481

I think your game would be awesome when do u want to play me?

[/ QUOTE ]

ha! see that's what im talking about. not everyone will know the proper odds and you can exploit that. haha for my example i tried to put something that would be really close, more so than a regular coinflip, haha i should have checked it out first. good point.

[ayecappy]

In limit holdem it would be a game of solely knowing your pot equity and pushing that edge against opponents who are less aware about pot equity than you. Fourth street would the last betting round, when the fifth card is dealt the best hand simply takes down the pot...

[dabluebery]

I think this is basically ridiculous. A pair of aces becomes a blind steal, because who would call, even in limit hold'em?

To expose the cards would be to defeat the purpose of poker; to play a gambling game with incomplete information under the pretense of a card game. If you simply want to play with math and odds, there are 100's of casino games that come right out and do this without the charade.

Rob

[reubenf]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is basically ridiculous. A pair of aces becomes a blind steal, because who would call, even in limit hold'em?

To expose the cards would be to defeat the purpose of poker; to play a gambling game with incomplete information under the pretense of a card game. If you simply want to play with math and odds, there are 100's of casino games that come right out and do this without the charade.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've merely pointed out that it would be different from poker. Not that it would be bad. Though I agree it would be bad (see my previous post), I do think some interesting variations could be had.

[dabluebery]

Yes, you're right. It wouldn't be poker, it would be..... a contrived betting game. I don't have a problem with it, as long as you accept that pretense.

I just think I'd play some other game first. The decisions would be pretty elementary in many cases.

The preflop math would be maddening, because in a full game, even a simple coinflip would have so many outs gone.

Say the two best hands are 66 and AK of ten hands dealt. It's something to the order of 97% that there's going to be an an ace / king / six out there to totally change this from a coinflip (55/45) situation. Don't nail me to the cross on the math, I did a simple calculation.

Rob

[ayecappy]

It would be impossible to play online since everyone would use some sort of software to calculate their equity and then whenever you have the best of it move allin if the structure is nolimit or bet the maximum if its PL or FL and everyone else would fold since calling or raising would not show any profit so unless the game is played live with people who does not now for example which is the better hand between Q9o and JTs it would always be over before the flop and the rake would ultimately make everyone broke.

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]
Your winnings would likely be far more determined by the cards you catch than your skill. No-limit would surely be a waste of time

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this part I disagree with. Your winning in normal HE is often more determined by luck than skill in a session, but who cares because we focus long term, where luck mean [censored] all. Down the road you're gonna make money making the right decisions; and I think that it could be a lot: the magnitude of the opponent mistakes would be quite large, and they would likely tend to be agressive mistakes - betting and betting to try and take the pot when you are correct to call.

I'm not sure who would play this game (I think limit would be most appealing tho), because the people at my B&amp;M like to bluff, check-raise, and call river bets
(if they played AA would NOT be a blind steal) but if it was opened I would enjoy it. I think it'd be a pretty solid teaching tool for face down HE as well.

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this last night while sleeping.


[/ QUOTE ]
awesome

[reubenf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your winnings would likely be far more determined by the cards you catch than your skill. No-limit would surely be a waste of time

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this part I disagree with. Your winning in normal HE is often more determined by luck than skill in a session, but who cares because we focus long term, where luck mean [censored] all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you agree that the long run is MUCH longer if the cards are face up? That means you'd need a much larger bankroll, and of course that assumes no rakes. It would probably be impossible to beat any rake similar to normal HE.

[steviej1717]

Our home game group plays a variation of this game while waiting for everyone to show up and start the game. You deal out the cards face up, and if you want to play, you put in a dollar. If not, you fold, and then the flop, turn and river are dealt with no betting, best hand wins. Kind of a fun way to pass the time.

[badonkadonk]

i thought of another variation.

YOU CAN ONLY SEE THE CARDS OF THE PEOPLE THAT ACT AFTER YOU.

this would fully negate the strength of position. what do you do when an early position player bets into you and you know that he can see your queens? is he bluffing?

[badonkadonk]

i just thought of a problem with my previous post. obviously this would only work online, unless live play was set up with some sort of system where other players' cards were relayed to a little screen in front of you.

but online this would be subject to so much collusion that it wouldn't work.

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]

What if there was a variation of Texas Hold'Em where it was played face-up. Would you play it?

Obviously it would come down to math. If you were able to calculate the odds more accurately than other players and bet the right amount so opponents would be making mistakes to call your bets then you could have a great advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds grand. I think you should call it 'Blackjack'

[reubenf]

[ QUOTE ]
Our home game group plays a variation of this game while waiting for everyone to show up and start the game. You deal out the cards face up, and if you want to play, you put in a dollar. If not, you fold, and then the flop, turn and river are dealt with no betting, best hand wins. Kind of a fun way to pass the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, no blinds, no antes?

[badonkadonk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What if there was a variation of Texas Hold'Em where it was played face-up. Would you play it?

Obviously it would come down to math. If you were able to calculate the odds more accurately than other players and bet the right amount so opponents would be making mistakes to call your bets then you could have a great advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds grand. I think you should call it 'Blackjack'

[/ QUOTE ]

a game named 'Blackjack' already exists whereby players play against the dealer to see who can get closest to 21. unfortunately you will have to think of another name that is not already taken.

[kurosh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What if there was a variation of Texas Hold'Em where it was played face-up. Would you play it?

Obviously it would come down to math. If you were able to calculate the odds more accurately than other players and bet the right amount so opponents would be making mistakes to call your bets then you could have a great advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds grand. I think you should call it 'Blackjack'

[/ QUOTE ]

a game named 'Blackjack' already exists whereby players play against the dealer to see who can get closest to 21. unfortunately you will have to think of another name that is not already taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being sarcastic?

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What if there was a variation of Texas Hold'Em where it was played face-up. Would you play it?

Obviously it would come down to math. If you were able to calculate the odds more accurately than other players and bet the right amount so opponents would be making mistakes to call your bets then you could have a great advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds grand. I think you should call it 'Blackjack'

[/ QUOTE ]

a game named 'Blackjack' already exists whereby players play against the dealer to see who can get closest to 21. unfortunately you will have to think of another name that is not already taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being sarcastic?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he isn't, does that mean I wasn't being funny?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
hehe..interesting
ive thought that it might be nice to do this in say nolimit tourney..reraise with big bet...tehn flip over your cards..with AA whose gonna call? otherwise seems you always get called.
Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[motorholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought about this last night while sleeping.


[/ QUOTE ]

Neat.....if you can think in your sleep does that mean you "dream" when you are awake...

Sorry couldn't resist.

[housenuts]

i dream when i'm awake. doesn't everyone?

wouldn't you call wanting to win the wsop a dream?

[steviej1717]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Our home game group plays a variation of this game while waiting for everyone to show up and start the game. You deal out the cards face up, and if you want to play, you put in a dollar. If not, you fold, and then the flop, turn and river are dealt with no betting, best hand wins. Kind of a fun way to pass the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, no blinds, no antes?

[/ QUOTE ]

No blinds or antes, its not really about the money, its just kind of a fun way to pass the time until the "real" game starts. It's especially fun to see the hilarious suckouts that happen when there's no betting. Everyone thinks its funny cause its only a dollar.