Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[sam h]

This happened to my girlfriend today. She can hardly move without pain and has a very important interview tomorrow. Anybody know any home remedies or solutions to make this go away? Going to see a doctor is not a preferable option since she temporarily has no health insurance.

[Reef]

If the pain keeps up for awhile, I'd see a chiropractor.

For temporary relief tomorrow, maybe have her get a therapuetic type massage right before the interview and take tylenol.

[istewart]

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has no health insurance.

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

[BusterStacks]

you are screwed. This doesn't go away in one day. Try some heat though, as hot as you can get it without discomfort.

[BusterStacks]

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has no health insurance.

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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You do realize this is very expensive if you have to get it from a 3rd party, right?

[jakethebake]

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has no health insurance.

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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You do realize this is very expensive if you have to get it from a 3rd party, right?

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Not as expensive as the potential alternative. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

[Tron]

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has no health insurance.

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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You do realize this is very expensive if you have to get it from a 3rd party, right?

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Not as expensive as the potential alternative. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

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[jakethebake]

This happens to me fairly often. It'll be gone in a day or two at most. It's nothing serious. Don't worry about it, but get some [censored] insurance!

[gumpzilla]

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Not as expensive as the potential alternative. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

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With the exception of Medicare and Medicaid, I don't see health insurance companies existing if they aren't making a profit. Which means that the premiums need to be worked out such that for most people, they pay in more than they get back. Now, if you know you're particularly unhealthy, then maybe (I ordinarily hate using this term outside of poker, physics or statistics contexts, but I think it actually fits here) health insurance is +EV, but I think for most people it's probably slightly -EV.

It's not purely a question of EV, of course. Most people wouldn't put all of their assets on an even money bet where they have 60-40 odds, even though it's a pretty sweet +EV situation. It's this angle that I think health insurance aims at. I certainly appreciate health insurance - I'd be out a substantial amount of money if I didn't have it right now - but I'm also not sure you appreciate how expensive health insurance can be if it's not being subsidized/paid for by an employer.

The real coup for the health insurance companies is that the big ones enter into contracts with most health care providers such that the providers write off much of what they would ordinarily bill for various procedures. As a result, now that I think of this, you can probably end up in win-win situations with your health insurance company where they profit off of you, but you still save money if you incur any kind of substantial medical bills. It's always struck me as bizarre, and at least somewhat wrong, that the people that get shafted hardest by medical bills are the ones without health insurance, who are as a rule going to be those who can least afford it.

[jakethebake]

Of course it's -EV on average. I think pretty much everyone who's not completely retarted understands that. But you're still a [censored] moran if you don't get it.

If you seriously don't have it just because it's -EV you're just stupid. Not to mention you're probably just another slug that will expect the rest of us to take care of you when something happens to you.

[beerbandit]

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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im a gambler



cheers

[gumpzilla]

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If you seriously don't have it just because it's -EV you're just stupid. Not to mention you're probably just another slug that will expect the rest of us to take care of you when something happens to you.

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Let's say it costs me $300 a month for health insurance. Suppose I just put this in a bank, and let's say I can accrue 1% interest on it. I can think of two ways in which this is inferior to health insurance:

1) If I have serious medical problems before I've spent some time building up funds, I could be in for a world of hurt. However, in my experience, hospitals/doctors will generally allow you to sign up for a pretty reasonable payment plan if that will get them paid, so I doubt this is a dealbreaker.

2) The last reason I mentioned in my previous post - you get charged more for equivalent service than the health insurance company does, and are thus potentially being ripped off. In some instances, if you know what the customary and accepted rates are for various services - this would probably amount to finding out the CPT code for your services and seeing if you can figure out what Medicare would pay, at least to within a few percent - maybe you can haggle your way out of this, but I think this is a bigger issue.

Some advantages:

1) With this method, you know you won't pay anything more than you need. If you're pretty healthy as a whole, this could be very nice.

2) Your money could gain interest.

Most people who aren't buying health insurance probably aren't doing this, but if they were, it's not clear-cut to me that it's stupid. You feel like thinking today, or just ranting?

[jakethebake]

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it's not clear-cut to me that it's stupid. You feel like thinking today, or just ranting?

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o.k. instead of a ring game, look at it like a tournament. there are times not to take the +EV choice. You take a -EV choice because it's a matter of survival. The consequences here are much worse, however. I think it's clear that anyone that justifies not having insirance because it's -EV is the one not thinking.

[gumpzilla]

Did you read anything but the last sentence of what I wrote?

[jakethebake]

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Did you read anything but the last sentence of what I wrote?

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Yea. I didn't feel the need to repost the whole thing. Do you know how much "serious medical problems" can cost? If you truly do not have coverage by choice because of this idiotic idea, then you should be cut off from any kind of charity/government-sponsored coverage and left to fend for yourself. I hate the whole inefficient, unethical, poorly-run insurance industry rip-off as much as anyone, but I'm not willing to bet my health, or that of my family, out of stupidity or stubbornness.

[gumpzilla]

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Yea. I didn't feel the need to repost the whole thing. Do you know how much "serious medical problems" can cost? If you truly do not have coverage by choice because of this idiotic idea

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See, this suggests to me that you didn't read it, because I mention that without health insurance, I'd be out a lot of money. That is, I have insurance. So, to answer the question from my previous post, you feel more like ranting than thinking.

Yes, having had an extended hospital stay and a couple of surgeries in the past year, I'm well aware of what they cost. Unless I'm getting profoundly ripped off, though - and maybe even then - that is irrelevant provided I can pay them at a nice, leisurely rate of what I would spend on my insurance premiums each month. Is this realistic? It probably depends on the size of the bill involved. Having worked in the insurance office of a surgery facility, I was aware of many people being on a straightforward payment plan where they sent some small amount of money each month, though, so I think it's not unrealistic if you call and talk to the business office at your provider.

Your tournament/ring game analogy is flawed, because what you're talking about is chip EV, not $ EV. Decisions in a tourney are still made to maximize EV, but the EV that you are interested in is $ EV, and frequently decisions that improve that look very different from ring game decisions, where, modulo image concerns and the like, chip EV and $ EV are the same thing.

[Worrots]

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I don't see health insurance companies existing if they aren't making a profit ... if you know you're particularly unhealthy...

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I'm going to try and not talk too much like an economist here.

The insurance company doesn't exist to provide you with health care. It exists to take the financial risk off your hands -- that's what you're paying them to do and what they get a profit for doing. You don't know ahead of time whether you're going to get hit by a bus -- you pay them to bear the financial risk of it happening.

Without insurance:
EV = (probability uninjured)*(all your money) - (probability hit by bus)*(cost of health care)

This is high variance as p(bus) is small but c(health care) is potentially huge.

With insurance:
EV = (all your money) - (small relative cost of insurance)

Your variance is very small -- whether or not your EV is smaller depends on the probabilities.

Note that we're talking financial EV here, actual EV (utility) differs. Most people value the money they have already more than the money they might get later i.e. they're risk averse i.e. a probability-adjusted dollar lost to health care costs is worth more than a dollar saved by not buying health insurance.

In other words, unless you're one of those rare people who somehow enjoy gambling way beyond your bankroll, paying someone else to take on your risk of catastrophic health care is EV+. (Assuming your basic needs of food, water, shelter, clothing, etc. are already met.)

[gumpzilla]

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Note that we're talking financial EV here, actual EV (utility) differs. Most people value the money they have already more than the money they might get later i.e. they're risk averse i.e. a probability-adjusted dollar lost to health care costs is worth more than a dollar saved by not buying health insurance.

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Now this is a good argument, and happens to be one that I agree with. In my original post, this was what I was alluding to with the 60-40 for all your assets gamble.

[Dantes]

anyways the answer is have her lie down on the bed face down, get a bunch of pillows and prop up her head/neck in the most comfortable position, take off her clothes, and do her in the pooper since she can't do a damn thing about it.

[istewart]

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anyways the answer is have her lie down on the bed face down, get a bunch of pillows and prop up her head/neck in the most comfortable position, take off her clothes, and do her in the pooper since she can't do a damn thing about it.

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VNH.

[sam h]

As far as the health insurance thing goes, the reason my girlfriend doesn't have it right now is the same reason that most people don't. She is temporarily out of work and can't afford it.

[Ass Master]

I don't know if you have time but a good chiropractor can be very helpful in relieving these acute neck episodes. One good crack can get all the muscles to loosen up right away. (Caveat: I think there are known though very rare instances of chiropractic neck cracks killing the patient). One session is generally not very expensive (around $50 or so). However, be skeptical of the pitch that she needs to keep coming back day in and day out for years.

Another thought is to simply tell the interviewer about the situation and request a reschedule. If the interviewer/company is reasonable I don't see why this should be a problem. Otherwise, your girlfriend might be better off not getting the job anyway.

[daryn]

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has no health insurance.

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WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

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You do realize this is very expensive if you have to get it from a 3rd party, right?

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Not as expensive as the potential alternative. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

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this is actually not true. insurance is -EV by definition. how do you think insurance companies make money?



btw i am just stating the obvious. clearly with the high costs involved in serious medical treatment, insurance is a good idea.

[jakethebake]

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See, this suggests to me that you didn't read it, because I mention that without health insurance, I'd be out a lot of money.

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That statement is exactly what I was referring to with my statement. "A lot of money" doesn't imply you have any idea what it can cost.

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That is, I have insurance. So, to answer the question from my previous post, you feel more like ranting than thinking.

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I'm not ranting. I'm stating s imple opinion that you are in fact a moran if you make a conscious decision not to have insurance because of the -EV factor, or pretty much any other reason other than you have a billion $ and decide to self-insure.

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Is this realistic? It probably depends on the size of the bill involved.

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Obviously that's my point. And it's the point of insurance. You won't know what that amount is until you have to pay it.

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Your tournament/ring game analogy is flawed, because what you're talking about is chip EV, not $ EV. Decisions in a tourney are still made to maximize EV, but the EV that you are interested in is $ EV, and frequently decisions that improve that look very different from ring game decisions, where, modulo image concerns and the like, chip EV and $ EV are the same thing.

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Obviously we're talking about real money. It's an analogy. Whether it's real $ or chips is a moot point.