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B-Man
10-22-2002, 05:58 PM
When I read articles like this, I honestly start to wonder if there is something inherently evil in the teachings of Islam. Certainly there is in "militant Islam". Why is militant Islam so prevalent, and apparently spreading? How can so many people have such terrible--and strong--beliefs that they commit these attrocities in the name of religion?

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By DANIEL PIPES & JONATHAN SCHANZER

October 22, 2002 --
THE recent bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia, killing at least 183 and injuring hundreds, fits into a larger pattern. Militant Islam used to be mostly confined to Middle Easterners, but in recent years it has spread to Muslims in other parts of the world.

This can be seen especially in the cases of Indonesia, Bangladesh and Nigeria, three countries with a combined population of about 494 million inhabitants. Their Muslim population of some 378 million constitutes about a third of the global Muslim community.

Indonesia: This Southeast Asian country, 88 percent Muslim, hosts Islamist efforts to impose Islamic law (Shari'a) through both legal and violent means.

On the island of Aceh alone, more than 6,000 lives have been lost in fighting between the Islamist "Free Aceh Movement" and government forces. Asian intelligence sources believe this group may be an al Qaeda affiliate. The goal of these and other radicals, CNS News reports, is "to turn the world's most populous Muslim country into an extremist Islamic state by 2003." Muslim-Christian tensions have led to a full-blown religious war on other islands.

In Sulawesi, Islamists have deployed roadblocks, armored bulldozers and rocket launchers, thereby isolating the indigenous Christian community. They have also systematically targeted Christians, forcing them to convert, circumcising their children, burning churches and other buildings.

In all, Muslim-Christian clashes in Indonesia have killed more than 19,000 since 1999 and left over 600,000 displaced from their homes.

Bangladesh: Islamists in this 83 percent Muslim country of South Asia aspire to establish a true "Islamic Republic of Bangladesh" with a constitution based on the Shari'a. The goal, says the head of one group, is to "pursue a slow but steady policy towards Islamization of the country" - much like Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Not surprisingly, al Qaeda has tentacles in Bangladesh. "Harakat ul-Jihad Islami, Bangladesh" was reportedly established with direct aid from Osama bin Laden in 1992 and calls itself the "Bangladeshi Taliban." The group claimed responsibility for attacking U.S. government offices in Calcutta, killing five policemen in January 2002.

Since Sept. 11, thousands of al Qaeda supporters have taken to the streets of Dhaka after Friday prayers, touting posters that read: "Osama is our Hero," while burning effigies of President George W. Bush.

Meanwhile, members of minority religions have suffered from ghastly violence, including collective terror. The Nation reports that some Buddhists and Christians were blinded, had fingers cut off or had hands amputated, while "others had iron rods nailed through their legs or abdomen." Women and children have "been gang-raped, often in front of their fathers or husbands." In addition, hundreds of temples were desecrated and statues destroyed; thousands of homes and businesses looted or burned.

As for Hindus, the human rights organization Freedom House reports they have been subject to "rape, torture and killing and the destruction of their cultural and religious identity at the hands of Muslims." In one indicative step, Islamists sometimes force Hindu women to dress in the Islamist fashion.

Nigeria: Disregarding both the Nigerian constitution (which stipulates a separation of church and state) and demographic realities (only 50 percent of the population is Muslim), Islamists of this West African country have adopted or announced plans to adopt some version of Islamic law in 12 of its 36 states since 1999.

Implementing Islamic law means forbidding such practices as the construction of churches, music performances, the wearing of pants, drinking alcohol and riding in mixed-gender taxis. Forced conversions to Islam are reported, as well as coerced divorces of Muslim women from Christian men.

Vigilantes enforce Islamic law via punishments that include stoning, flogging and the chopping off of hands. Solidarity visits from Sudanese, Pakistani, Saudi, Palestinian and Syrian Islamists tie Nigeria to the wider forces of militant Islam. Freedom House concludes that Nigeria is undergoing a process of "Talibanization."


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That militant Islam and its companion violence have spread from the Middle Eastern core to the periphery of the Muslim world is of great concern. It means that the enemies of the United States, moderate Islam, and of civilization itself are far more numerous and entrenched than previously thought. This implies that the current war will likely be longer, bloodier and more demanding than most people imagine.

Clarkmeister
10-22-2002, 06:02 PM
"How can people......commit these atrocities in the name of religion"

Ask the Crusaders. There is no shortage of evil acts that have been comitted in the name of Chrisianity.

Dynasty
10-22-2002, 06:06 PM
It's also worth noting how Southern churches had no ethical problems with the enslavement of blacks for centuries.

Boris
10-22-2002, 06:10 PM
Given this unsettling trend, do you think the US should change its stance towards countries like Libya? We obviously have not had good relations with Libya for many years but Qaddafi is very opposed to radical Islam. Would it be wise to adopt a strategy similiar to the Cold War where we supported some unsavory regimes simply because they were our enemy's enemy>

Boris
10-22-2002, 06:14 PM
No disputing that organized Christian religion has committed atrocities, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that militant Islam is a horrible phenomenon. I see no reason to withhold judgement on Radical Islam simply because there are bad Christians in the world.

Dynasty
10-22-2002, 06:28 PM
Nobody's making excuses for militant Islam (at least not Clarkmeister and myself in this thread). The point being made was that the use of religon to promote and support atrocities is nothing new in history. In fact, many worse things have been done in the name of religon than the 9/11 attacks.

Any militant Islamic organization which promotes terrorism, warfare, or crimes against humanity should be crushed- leaving nothing but ruins and ashes where they stood.

brad
10-22-2002, 06:35 PM
has any group or whatever taken 'credit' for the bali bombing?

Clarkmeister
10-22-2002, 07:58 PM
The initial post is titled "What is it about Islam?" My point is that it should be more correctly titled "What is it about organized religion?"

B-Man
10-22-2002, 08:43 PM
You're right, the use of religion to promote attrocities is not new, nor is it exclusive to Islam. However, looking at the state of the world today, militant Islam is a HUGE problem. I think the Crusades were horrible, but the Church stopped the Crusades long ago (the abuse of children by priests is another story, but I don't want to open that can of worms). Militant Islam is not stopping, in fact, it appears to be gaining momentum, and something needs to be done about it.

B-Man
10-22-2002, 08:47 PM
Sure, there are many problems in the world caused by organized religion, not just Islam. But looking at the state of the world today, militant Islam seems to be the biggest problem, by far. I was not intending to exonerate the Church for the Crusades or any other religion for previous wrongdoings... I was simply trying to bring attention to something horrendous going on throughout the world today, something that is spreading, and something that should be stopped before it is out of control.

adios
10-23-2002, 04:35 AM
"My point is that it should be more correctly titled "What is it about organized religion?" "

And I would say it would be more correctly titled "What is it about religious fanaticism?"

Ed Miller
10-23-2002, 06:15 AM
Look at the Protestant/Catholic nonsense in Northern Ireland. Look at the Jewish/Muslim nonsense in Israel and Palestine. Look at the Orthodox/Catholic/Muslim nonsense in the former Yugoslavia. Muslims/Catholics in Indonesia and the Philippines. Shiites/Sunnis all over the Islamic world.

Frankly, I don't think it is any one religion that is the cause of this. Really, I don't think that religion is even really the problem in most of these cases (perhaps it is the root cause in Northern Ireland, though even there I am not sure). The root cause of all of this is the root cause of so many of our world's problems... millions of people living in squalor. Religion is used as an excuse to incite people... but it is not the cause. Wealthy people who have everything they need don't rebel... they don't jihad... they don't suicide bomb... and they don't civil war... no matter their religion. Of course Osama bin Laden is rich, but he is a nutcase. And really he isn't the problem... it's the rank and file that are the problem... the numbers... the army. OBL is dangerous because of his army... take away his enlisted men and he has nothing.

The solution to the problem of radical Islam... and the solution to so many other of the world's problems... is an economic one. Let's see a Palestinian state where its citizens prosper... let's see a Saudi Arabia where the oil riches actually make it out of the royal family and down to the citizens... and let's see an Afghanistan where the United States, with all its wealth and power, does what it can to ensure that Afghans don't have to eat grass anymore. If we see prosperity in the Muslim world, then radical Islam will die with a whimper. If instead we continue to see bombings, invasions, and systematic destruction of what little infrastructure there is in many of these places... we could be facing an army of the starving and downtrodden, hellbent on revenge, in numbers we have never before seen.

MMMMMM
10-23-2002, 04:36 PM
Islam is alone, to the best of my knowledge, among major religions of the world in that its holy scriptures specifically call for the killing of nonbelievers (infidels). I posted some specific quotations from the Koran regarding this not to long ago, under the post heading "Religion of Peace or Religion of Intolerance?" If I were not on a friend's computer right now I would post those scriptural quotes here again.

Certainly there are many other factors in the equation, and surely others have done many bad things in the name of religion too. However I believe that Islam alone, in its holy writings, calls for the violent (if necessary) conquest of all who do not share its beliefs. As such it is inherently incompatible with all other reigions and belief systems (which in and of itself could be still OK), but the dangerous part is that it advocates violence to achieve these ends. And "radical Islam" is perhaps a misnomer: Islam itself may not moderate although there may be moderate Muslims. Those who suspect I am taking a too narrow view of Islamic beliefs and scriptures are encouraged to review the quotations from the Koran calling for the killing of nonbelievers (if they do not convert to Islam). To the best of my knowledge there are not any equivalent instructions in the holy scriptures of any other major religions.

So while a great many factors are at work in today's maze of conflicts, I believe there are also irreconciliable ideological differences and unfortunately Islam itself does not inherently accomodate peaceful coexistence with conflicting ideologies.