Trap troubles #1 -- flopped tiny full house

[Blarg]

I really wanted to trap some people, and here's how it turned out.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t610)
MP1 (t805)
Hero (t660)
CO (t2390)
Button (t1505)
SB (t850)
BB (t575)
UTG (t605)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t180) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t180) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: t260

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins t260. </font>

I was worried that since I just limped in, people would think I struck gold on the flop and fold if I bet. I also thought that anyone with a two or any decent hand would bet it on the turn, and there was even a good chance someone would bluff. I didn't want to waste a full house by appearing to bet trips, so I bided my time.

I checked the flop and then saw there was only one guy behind me to make a bet on the turn, or I would have to miss that too.

Should I have checked the turn too, to let someone get a hand and want to throw some money in, then bet on the river, or hope someone bet into me on the river? Should I have bet bigger on the turn on the chance someone would come in thinking it was a transparent steal attempt?

Anyways -- any thoughts on this hand?

[Maulik]

I think its pretty unlikely someone is playing a deuce or a six. So I would slow play this to the river and hope soneone makes a pair and starts shipping chips. Its pretty hard to lose to a bigger boat given this flop and the lack of preflop action

[The Yugoslavian]

Meh, all that does is provide anecdotal evidence of how limping with 66 on level 2 of a Party STT isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yugoslav

[Benholio]

I say bet the flop. If someone has any kind of hand, and might call, you will get a lot more money by betting the flop. Enough more money to counteract the times you scare someone out who might have caught something and called on the turn.

In order to give yourself a chance to win a big pot, you have to build it.

Slowplay flop and get good results:
Flop(180): check around
Turn(180): bet half the pot, get a call.
River(360): bet half the pot, get a call.
You win the pot (720)

Bet out on flop and get good results:
Flop(180): bet 60, get 2 calls.
Turn(360): bet half the pot, get 1 call.
River(720): push for 390, get called.
You win the pot (1500)

By getting 120 extra chips in on the flop, you allow yourself to win 780 more chips on the same pot-size relative bets/calls.

If you are considering checking the flop AND the turn, then your "good" outcome becomes even smaller.

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, all that does is provide anecdotal evidence of how limping with 66 on level 2 of a Party STT isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. It is easy to overestimate the implied odds when playing for a set.

[mcpherzen]

With your late position, and all those flop-checkers to you, you have to bet on the flop. I'd bet about 1/2 the pot, maybe a bit less. An opponent with two overcards to that board still has some hope with 2 cards to come, so you might get a call or two. Once their overards miss on the turn, however, they won't like drawing to six outs (they think) on the river, especially when the pair on the board means they may be drawing dead already. Further, your small bet on the flop reopens the betting to the 4 opponents who had checked. Who knows, maybe one will read you for trying to buy the pot with your late position and pop you.

--Z

[Seadood228]

^^^^ very well put.

If you slowplay here, your hand becomes clear as day as soon as you apply heat. Placing a small bet actually disguises your hand more, and builds a pot for someone should they hit.. You also give yourself a chance to have someone go for a bluff raise.

[Blarg]

Some good responses here, thanks.

I like a lot that idea that a flop betpotentially opens up raises from the people who have already checked the flop in front of me. Creating new potential action out of old action. That's definitely another way to get money in the pot.

Basically, the question is whether I bluff on the flop, turn, or river, and you guys are suggesting my bluff on the turn doesn't create as much profit as a bluff on the flop. That bluff being, of course, that my hand is other than a monster.

Okay, I'm turning this over in my head and I think I learned something.

Thanks!

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, all that does is provide anecdotal evidence of how limping with 66 on level 2 of a Party STT isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured you were kidding, but maybe not, so I guess I must respond.

He did win 150 here. That's 5:1 on his original call. Not quite the 8:1 against hitting his set, but it's not like he got nothing.

I think it was a total aberration that no one bet or called on the turn or flop. I think he would average much more than 150 if this hand/flop occured 100 times.

Besides, he would've won this pot even if he held 33, 44, 55, or 73o. When in position, you don't always need a set to win.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, all that does is provide anecdotal evidence of how limping with 66 on level 2 of a Party STT isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured you were kidding, but maybe not, so I guess I must respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I'm half kidding...

Thinking that this hand is really much evidence for folding is bonus, but I *do* think most players (and 2+2ers) overvalue low pocket pairs early in STT play.

Yes, generally Hero should be able to get action here.

Yugoslav

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
When in position, you don't always need a set to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

YES!!!!!!!

I say this all the time. People around here seem to think that when you have something like 66, and you don't hit a set, you've lost the hand automatically.