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View Full Version : Betting impetus: some clarification


Irieguy
04-01-2005, 06:55 PM
I guess I just kind of threw this term out there without explaining it very well. Now it seems that it may be misunderstood.

impetus: a force that moves something along.

So, betting impetus describes the action that moves the betting along in a round. That basically means that whomever opens the betting, or raises last, has assumed the betting impetus.

Many players, it seems, do not fully appreciate how powerful this concept can be.

"I bet, they should fold." or
"He doesn't have anything, so I'll raise and he should fold..." are a pretty common ways to think about bluffing.

"I have a good hand, should I bet or check-raise?" is a common way to think about playing when you hit the flop.

But it's important to understand (and the heart of the concept of betting impetus, in my opinion) that you don't always have to seize betting impetus to play a hand strongly. You must also be able to surrender it. This will allow you to do what Zen and I refer to as "playing for value."

By learning when to lead and when to let your opponent lead, you will improve your ability to make calls when you rate to be ahead.

Furthermore, you will learn how to manipulate the size of a pot. Have you ever flopped TPTK against a set, played all the way to the river, and only lost half of your stack to somebody that had you covered? I would bet that there are many players to whom this has never happened. But it's important to learn how to lose a hand without losing all of your chips. It's also OK to sometimes win a hand without doubling up. Sometimes a situation isn't favorable enough to expect a double-up.

Understanding how betting impetus drives the action in a hand will open up your mind to options on streets other than the flop. You will begin to win more when you are ahead and lose less when you are behind. You will win more not because you are winning big pots... but because you are winning more pots. You will lose less because you don't always have to get all of your chips in the pot when you decide not to fold.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Irieguy

teamdonkey
04-01-2005, 07:03 PM
this is not always a good thing. last night after putting mustard on my ham and cheese sandwich, i got overzealous and liberally applied too much horseradish. Condiment impetus gone bad can lead to gastrointestinal meltdown.

AJo Go All In
04-01-2005, 07:10 PM
and i was wondering why every goddamn post in this forum is talking about impetus. i was thinking, is that some new bot program or something?

The Yugoslavian
04-01-2005, 07:21 PM
Like initiative (http://www.chess-poster.com/english/glossary.htm#I) (scroll down a bit) in chess.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav
I still think this analogy works quite well...

Unarmed
04-01-2005, 07:23 PM
In other news...
HUGE improvement on the avatar.

Degen
04-01-2005, 07:24 PM
i think this is a strong concept...though the TPTK vs Set example you put up i really don't agree w/ a great deal.

it sounds like you are advocating a 'check-calling to the river' strategy when you may be beat. i prefer simply to fold here a great deal of times. what's wrong w/ releasing TPTK in a HU pot?

the one situation where i think this works AMAZINGLY WELL is when you put your opponent on a draw...and they are callling you all the way. on the river...when they miss it....CHECK TO THEM!!!! let them try and steal the pot. it happens all the time.



Degen

SuitedSixes
04-01-2005, 07:25 PM
I'll save everyone a click, you lazy ass:
[ QUOTE ]
Initiative: Term to describe the advantage held by the player who has the ability to control the action and flow of the game thus forcing the opponent to play defensively. A player able to make threats to which his opponent must react, he is said to "possess the initiative." This is usually due to better placement of the chessmen and easier access to weaknesses in the opponent's position.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Yugoslavian
04-01-2005, 07:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
In other news...
HUGE improvement on the avatar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I finally got control of it back from SuitedSixes.

I figured this new avatar was the least I could do for everyone who had to bear with me through the last couple of weeks...

Yugoslav
Plus, she's Yugoslavian, /images/graemlins/shocked.gif, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Voltron87
04-01-2005, 07:37 PM
Is this another one of those fancy 2+2 terms I understand but don't know the codeword for?

Anyone care to explain/ link?

Unarmed
04-01-2005, 07:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is this another one of those fancy 2+2 terms I understand but don't know the codeword for?

Anyone care to explain/ link?

[/ QUOTE ]



im·po·tence (mp-tns) or im·po·ten·cy (-tn-s)
n.

The quality or condition of being impotent.

SuitedSixes
04-01-2005, 07:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other news...
HUGE improvement on the avatar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I finally got control of it back from SuitedSixes.

I figured this new avatar was the least I could do for everyone who had to bear with me through the last couple of weeks...

Yugoslav
Plus, she's Yugoslavian, /images/graemlins/shocked.gif, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you say, "Over compensation?"

SuitedSixes
04-01-2005, 08:06 PM
Isn't the key with BI to understand:

A) Who has it?
B) Why they have it?
C) How to respond?
i) Let them have it, surrender (fold).
ii) Let them have it, use it against them.
iii) Let them have it, see how the hand develops.
iv) Seize it from them. (Raise)

pooh74
04-01-2005, 08:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and i was wondering why every goddamn post in this forum is talking about impetus. i was thinking, is that some new bot program or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, and half of the posts not only misunderstood what irie meant originally, but the meaning of the word itself. Nice job clarifying in an unpretentious manner Irie...you're more man than I am.

I was cringing at seeing this word the past few days....

stupidsucker
04-01-2005, 09:03 PM
I had to read it twice.... I was confusing it with The Lead.

raptor517
04-01-2005, 10:09 PM
chess is rigged. i couldnt even beat myself. meh

the shadow
04-02-2005, 01:39 AM
betting impetus in poker ~ initiative in chess ~ sente (http://games.yahoo.com/games/rules/go/goglossary.html#gosente) in go

The Shadow