Newbie Odds Question

[Scorpius]

I want to thank all of you for your previous responses. I am a fairly new player to omaha/8 and your input is really helping me. I have another question, this time about outs. Can someone explain how a draw to two pair is 4 outs? A chart from Krieger's article at cardplayer.com says 4 outs, but if you need one card to make two pair, isn't that 3 outs (you've already got one pair and one card of the other pair...doesn't that leave just 3 of the second pair available to draw)? Also, can someone explain the outs for a full house? The outs seem to be different depending on whether you have the pair in your hand or on the board. Is this right? Thanks.

[Mr. D]

Your 2 pair 4 outs confusion is probably that what you think you are reading as the outs to make 2 pair is actually the outs to make a full house from 2 pair, that is, there are 2 of each of the cards you have paired left to make your full house. In full-table, loose omaha/8, the assumption is that a made hand (a hand using all 5 cards . . straight, flush, full house) is usually necessary to take down the high side of the pot. This may not be the case given weak betting or a very uncoordinated board, but you certainly won't lose lots of money playing only made hands and draws to them in a loose O8 game.

[LockForward]

Krieger's chart is actually for Hold'em, as in Omaha there are 2 more cards in your hand and therefor 2 more known cards.

For example, lets say you hold four to a flush on the turn in holdem. There are 52 cards in the deck, subtract 4 for the board cards (3 on the flop, 1 on the turn), and then subtract the 2 from your hand and you are left with 46 unknown cards. 9 of those cards complete your flush, while 37 of them do not, so your odds on completing your flush with one card to come is 37 to 9, or about 4.11 to 1.

Now imagine the same situation in an Omaha game. Out of 52 cards, on the turn there are 4 on the board, but now there are 4 in your hand, leaving you with 44 unknown cards. 9 cards complete your flush, while 35 of them do not, so your odds on completing your flush in Omaha is 35 to 9 or about 3.89 to 1.
Someone please correct me if I have screwed this up.

I don't quite understand your question about the full house. Are you talking about making a full house when you have two pair vs three of a kind?