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View Full Version : $30/60 stud/8 hand--$2800 pot


Andy B
10-20-2002, 01:50 AM
Here's a hand I played a month or so ago in Canterbury Park's $30/60 stud/8 game. The game has a $5 ante and a $10 force. A $4 rake is taken more or less immediately. I am, of course, convinced that I played this hand brilliantly as always, but I want to see if other folks see it that way.

The bring-in is a few seats to my right. There is a limp and a couple of folds to me. I have rolled-up Jacks and limp. A loose aggressive player (JC) limps with a baby in the door. Another loose aggressive guy (DV) completes showing a Four. While both of these guys are loose, they are thinking players. JC in particular is extremely aggressive, and a lot of fun to play with (so what's he doing on your left, Andy?). A couple of players fold including the bring-in. I think the limper called, and I couldn't resist a re-raise. I limp and re-raise a lot in stud/8, and this is well-known to my opponents. What is perhaps not as well-known is that about the only hand I could have at this point is rolled-up Jacks. Well, I suppose I might try this with something like KQJ sooted if my cards were exceptionally live and I was feeling particularly frisky. Also, there couldn't be too many low hands (preferably not any). Anyway, three or four of us see fourth street for $60 apiece.

On fourth street, the hands look a little like this:

AB: (Jc Jd) <font color="red">Jh 4d</font color>
JC: (?? ??) <font color="red">3d 2d</font color>
DV: (?? ??) 4c Js

I am high by virtue of my position in the one seat and bet. JC raises, DV calls, I think the limper bails at this point, I raise, JC raises, DV calls, I cap, both call.

I start wondering what the hell DV has. Whatever it is, it's got nothing on three Jacks. On to fifth street:

AB: (Jc Jd) <font color="red">Jh 4d </font color> Qc
JC: (?? ??) <font color="red">3d 2d 6h</font color>
DV: (?? ??) 4c Js Qs

You astute 2+2 types will note a strong resemblence between my board and DV's board. I bet, JC raises, DV calls, I re-raise, JC four-bets, DV calls, I cap, and both call.

You may see a pattern developing here. Onward. On sixth street we have something like

AB: (Jc Jd) <font color="red">Jh 4d </font color> Qc 9h
JC: (?? ??) <font color="red">3d 2d 6h</font color> 6c
DV: (?? ??) 4c Js Qs 5s

JC is now high and bets. DV calls. I raise, and JC and I cap it again, with DV taking all raises. To the river we go.

I do not improve. JC bets out, and DV now raises for the first time since third street. I stand up, take a couple of steps away from the table, look at the ceiling, mutter a few expletives, and then sit back down. I notice that JC is nearly all-in. So is DV for that matter. Specifically, JC has so few chips left that he even if he re-raises, it won't be enough for DV to be allowed to raise again. Since the pot is monstrous and it's only going to cost another $140 or so, I call. Your comments welcome.

Ray Zee
10-20-2002, 02:21 AM
i guess my comment is do you think you were a 2 to 1 favorite to get half the pot on each of those streets you jammed.

Andy B
10-20-2002, 01:34 PM
Something that I intentionally left out of the first post was that something in JC's manner made me strongly suspect that he was weak. Specifically, I thought that his fourth street card probably paired him. Even if he wasn't paired, the chance of him having or making a straight was pretty small. If he had had 543 or 542 on third street, he would absolutely have made it a full bet when it got to him. He probably started with a three-card 7 or 8 (he might have dumped a three-card 8 when it was $50 back to him on third; might not have).

I didn't know what the hell to put DV on. Rolled-up Fours was unlikely, since I had a Four. I also think he would have three-bet third street with a set. It was possible that he had pocket Queens and made a set, but I think that he would raise himself had he made three Queens on fifth street. He would also absolutely raise himself if he had made the flush on sixth. It turns out that he had started with a very nice three-card low and stayed in despite having caught two consecutive bananas on capped betting rounds. The 5s gave him a four-flush and a four-card low. On the river, he of course caught the 6s to scoop a very nice pot. He said that he had nothing going in, and I believe him.

The most unbelievable thing about this hand, though, is that after putting in all that action, JC folded on the river when it was raised back to him. He did, in fact, have two small pair.

Given what these guys actually had, my edge on fourth and fifth street is large. Even if JC had a made low on fifth, it's still pretty large. It is less large on sixth street, but still substantial. I ran a sim; my equity is a little over 50%, and I'm only putting in 1/3 of the money. Even if JC has a made low on sixth (with no straight draw), I'm more than a 3:1 favorite to take the high side.

brad
10-20-2002, 08:19 PM
well youre a very good player then to notice all that.

but just going by the boards i would really have to say that it looks like you should stop jamming on fifth street. (go to three bets?) (i guess you bet out so maybe just call the raise since by calling raise cold 3rd guy aint going nowhere?)

Andy B
10-21-2002, 01:19 AM
At the time I wasn't absolutely sure that JC didn't have a straight, but I was more than 90% sure. I can't really explain why, but I sensed that he was weak, and I was right. I have thought about this hand a lot since then ($935 is the most I've ever lost in a hand; it wasn't exactly a warm fuzzy feeling). After thinking about it some, it occurred to me that JC absolutely couldn't have had the straight. If he had had that good of a three card start, he would have made it a full bet on third street, especially with two limpers in front of him.

Given that JC doesn't have a straight, why would I want to stop jamming on fifth street? My edge is pretty significant. If DV wants to throw $300 in there with three babies and three spades, shouldn't I give him the opportunity? So he isn't going anywhere; at that point, I don't really want him to go anywhere.

I am pleased to report that I left this session a $1000+ winner, and that DV left with somewhat less than what was in that pot.

Rick Nebiolo
10-21-2002, 02:43 AM
Andy,

And I thought my posts were long /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

I would have slowed way down on sixth street with JC's scary board. Also calling these guys "loose aggressive" seems to be an understatment.

Hope you can do a better job on my post above then I did here.

Regards,

Rick

B-Man
10-21-2002, 12:57 PM
I think you are probably beat by a backdoor flush (or maybe a full house), but since they are both almost all-in and the pot is huge this is an automatic call.