Do Republicans Really Believe These Things

[Richard Tanner]

I was reading a post in the "Why don't we just take the oil thread" where Felix (I believe it was him) said that Bush had fulfilled his military duty.
Do Republicans really believe that. I mean I'm a Libertarian but I voted Republican and I thought that we (meaning the majority of those that voted republican) just quietly agreed that Bush was an idiot (his aids and party would pick up the slack), that he didn't do his duty (he took the out that many of us would take given half a chance), and that that whole gay marriage thing was just a way to appease the religious rite. Do the majority of Republicans believe this.
I know this sounds a little like an April Fool's Joke, but I'm dead serious here. Do those who would be classified as "Hardcore Republicans/Rightists" on here (i.e. Felix,BGC, etc.) really believe in those things that relate to the above. I'm all for the economic policies of the Rupubs. but do you guys really believe/follow those "party opinions" in social issues.

Cody

[BCPVP]

Are you talking about all social issues or just gay marriage in particular?

[Richard Tanner]

Actually a little of both. I think that most republicans just use the gay marriage issue to get votes from some frienge groups, and that's fantastic. I love politics and the manuvering done by parties to get votes, I tend to think of it as a game. But what worries me is that I'm allowing myself to vote for people that really do hold these sometimes laughable ideals to be true.
I know that doesn't really help, but that little rant aside, as I said in the first sentance, I'm looking for comments involving any social issue including gay marriage.

Cody

[Matty]

Yes, I truly believe most Republicans believe Bush did his duty, and Kerry is a traitor. Every study done on the subject has shown Bush supporters to have more misperceptions than Kerry voters.

But that's because all the polling firms are in a conspiracy risking their credibility to make Republicans look bad in studies no one will ever hear about.

As far as gay marriage goes, after the election when those Bush tapes were leaked by his friend, they showed Bush saying he was hesitant to push any laws against gays. It's just a political play.

The Terry Schiavo deal however ... I think he actually believed in that [censored]. I highly suspect Karl Rove was not supportive of that move.

But, mine is not the opinion you want.

[Richard Tanner]

Your opinion is as valid as any, after all who among us harbors no bias. That siad, let's not jump the gun, Bush doing/not doing his duty and Kerry being a traitor are mutually exclusive. I don't think Bush did his duty, but I also don't think Kerry was a tratior.
As an aside, that one of the things I love about Republicans, their ability to spin anything in order to discredit the other side. That is one of the reasons I voted Republican, they are simply better politicians.

Cody

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I truly believe most Republicans believe Bush did his duty, and Kerry is a traitor. Every study done on the subject has shown Bush supporters to have more misperceptions than Kerry voters.

But that's because all the polling firms are in a conspiracy risking their credibility to make Republicans look bad in studies no one will ever hear about.

As far as gay marriage goes, after the election when those Bush tapes were leaked by his friend, they showed Bush saying he was hesitant to push any laws against gays. It's just a political play.

The Terry Schiavo deal however ... I think he actually believed in that [censored]. I highly suspect Karl Rove was not supportive of that move.

But, mine is not the opinion you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said. I said it long ago that once the election is over, you will never hear the words "constitutional amendment" and "Gay marriage" come out of GWB's mouth again.

Unless, of course, it can help a few buddies get elected or re-elected...

[lehighguy]

There is technically fulfilling military duty and morally fulfilling military duty. I believe he performed the former and not the latter.

[Felix_Nietsche]

"....that one of the things I love about Republicans, their ability to spin anything in order to discredit the other side. That is one of the reasons I voted Republican, they are simply better politicians."
************************************************** ********
Do you actually believe this is wise to select who do vote for based on their ability to spin and their ability to discredit the other side? If you truly believe this, you have a peculiar criteria of deciding who to vote for.....

And if you have evidence showing Bush43 did not fulfill his military duty then contact CBS IMMEDIATELY, they will send a private jet, put you in a 4-star hotel, and give you an interview with Dan Rather.... You will make history! They have been trying to nail Bush on this for 5 years. The last attempt was with forged Microsoft Word documents on fax paper (it is a little difficult to forge 35 year old paper so I guess fax paper was the second choice). I was in the military and when a pilot is:
1. Trained to fly a fighter
2. The fighter is obsoleted during the pilots service.
3. The pilot is leaving the service in 2 years.

They will NOT spend the money to re-train a pilot on a new fighter. The result is they give the pilot "busy work" until their term is over. Bush fell in this category. Giving pilots in these situations "flex time" is normal... Personally I think it is a waste of tax payer money and they should excuse these pilots from their service obligations early...

I wonder if you did actually vote Republican.... To vote Republican, you do so for one of two basic reasons:
1. You generally agree with the Republican agenda.
2. You despise the opposing party's agenda so much that voting Republican is the lesser of two evils...

Based on your post, I would DEFINATELY rule out #1.
I leaning towards ruling out #2 since you have said nothing bad about the Dems.

Seriously, are you a John Kerry supporter in wolves clothing?

[Richard Tanner]

Ok I'll just go down the list:
[ QUOTE ]
Do you actually believe this is wise to select who do vote for based on their ability to spin and their ability to discredit the other side? If you truly believe this, you have a peculiar criteria of deciding who to vote for.....


[/ QUOTE ]

Short answer, Yes. Long answer is that we pay our government to do all the unpleasent things (lie, cheat, and steal) that we don't want to do. Of course, they do the nice things too, but we really have them aroudn to do what must be done. As such, I will vote for the people I think best capable of occasionally bending the rules to outsmart our (America's) enemies. Plus their actions lead me to believe that on the whole, they are smarter people in terms of knowledge of psychology.

As for the Bush military thing, you need to start making the distinction. Yes we all agree, at least I hope everyone does, that Bush technically fulfilled his duty, but helping someone in Mississippi with their campaign (or whatever the exact details were) isn't in the spirit of what others were doing. Leighguy makes the point very well below in this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if you did actually vote Republican.... To vote Republican, you do so for one of two basic reasons:
1. You generally agree with the Republican agenda.
2. You despise the opposing party's agenda so much that voting Republican is the lesser of two evils...


[/ QUOTE ]

This was my favorite part. I've read your posts and you seem to be very intellegent, so I'll treat this as a lapse (or did you really mean for it to sound like that). I voted Republican because, being a libertarian, I agree with them economically (mostly) but not socially. Hince my question about the social aspects of the party's members' beliefs. Social issues, I believe, will be worked out by time. Gays will eventually be allowed to marry, just as civil rights worked itself out (for the most part).

[Felix_Nietsche]

"Do those who would be classified as "Hardcore Republicans/Rightists" on here (i.e. Felix,BGC, etc.) really believe in those things that relate to the above.....do you guys really believe/follow those "party opinions" in social issues."
*************************************************
Not at all...
1. I was against the federal government interjecting itself in the Schiavo case. I consider this a violation of state right's clause of the Constitution.
2. Gays can do what they want. EXCEPT change the definition of marriage via judges. If thet wish to do so then they should lobby their representatives.
3. I think SOME abortions should be legal.
4. I think Bush is WRONG on lots of issues. I think Clinton was WRONG on lots of issues. I consider neither of these men dumb despite their errors in judgement. As for Bush, he got an MBA from Harvard business school which is EXTREMLY DIFFICULT. Al Gore flunked out of Harvard and Teddy Kennedy got kicked out for cheating. Gore and Kennedy have no standing calling Bush43 'dumb'.
5. Yes, I believe Bush did fulfill his military duty. Having served in the military, I know pilots who fly obsoleted planes and who only have two years remaining in their service, get light duty the rest of their terms. Not everyone in the military gets to be 'John Rambo' killing lots of commies... These pilots usually get carte blanc flex time (this of course depends on their commanding officers). Bush received the same treatment as other pilots in his situation...
6. I'm an atheist and I am not paranoid of Bush's Christian beliefs...

[Richard Tanner]

Holy cow is this possible:
1-agree
2-agree
3-agree, but I'm guess our definitions of "some" are slightly different
4-agree, although I would be curious as to how much of Bush43's succes was do to his political background. Also it would be interesting to get him in an IQ test or two.
5-agree, technically
6-agree, 100%

[Chris Alger]

The subject of your post probably does but the majority of news savvy educated Republicans don't. Republican propaganda more often seems facially implausible or just dumb because the Republicans who see through it don't mind. These are the people who are more likely to be educated, fairly successful and skeptical about liberal democracy. They presume that a certain amount of medicine show pizzaz is necessary to get their taxes cut.

The other big GOP constituency understands politics via television, or worse. They don't have much to go on except the party line an therefore have to take that pretty seriously. They can't imagine their leaders have to oversimplify things to the point of lying in order to be understood.

[Matty]

I think it's pretty obvious that Richar Tanner is just posing as a Bush-voter. Nobody votes for someone based on how good they are at getting votes.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Also it would be interesting to get him in an IQ test or two.

[/ QUOTE ]
Answer (http://web.archive.org/web/20000815202310/http:/www.intellectualcapital.com/issues/issue320/item7250.asp)

[vulturesrow]

I am aginst gay marriage, for a variety of reasons. I dont claim to speak for the Republican majority. I think Bush did his duty, Felix summed that issue up nicely. As for other social issues, I am squarely against abortion.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I'm not sure I would agree with you that the Repubs are better than the Dems at spinning or at 'politics'.
The each have their strong points.

To use a poker analogy the Dems are like a No-Limit Hold'em player that raises a lot and goes in a lot.
The Repubs are the No-Limit Hold'em player that plays super tight and fold to much. The Dems win a lot of small pots but every now and then they overplay their hand and the Repubs nail them.....

A good example would be the unprecidented filibustering of federal judges. Never in our country's 200+ year history has this been done. The repubs could have stop this months ago but they have been wimping out. The Dems have been out-ballsing the Repubs in this issue.

[natedogg]

Yes, I truly believe most Republicans believe Bush did his duty, and Kerry is a traitor. Every study done on the subject has shown Bush supporters to have more misperceptions than Kerry voters.

Obviously these "studies" are nonsense.

The only one I ever saw was one that asked two vaguely worded questions about Iraq and Al Qaeda. Do you have others?

I'd love to see the one where Kerry supporters are asked a bunch of basic questions about economics....

natedogg

[Richard Tanner]

Nope real Bush voter, as I explained above.

Cody

[lehighguy]

Did you know that democrats are far more likely then the general population to believe inflation went up under Reagen rather then down. Look up that survey.

[TransientR]

I.Q., aptitude and SAT scores of sitting presidents are pretty well guarded. Do you know how the New Yorker got this info?

By the way, 1200+ before 1996 is very good, but unless you showed me a video of Bush actually taking the test, I'm skeptical. I've seen some "dumb as a box of rocks" folks with connections score high, because on test day they looked quite different from how I remembered them in class /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Frank

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
I.Q., aptitude and SAT scores of sitting presidents are pretty well guarded. Do you know how the New Yorker got this info?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how the New Yorker got it, but they got it in 1999, so it was probably easier than had they tried recently.

[jokerswild]

Powerful Republicans believe that they are the master race. They believe that all the oil in the world belongs to the strongest military. They believe that anyone under 200 k a year can at most aspire to servitude to the Masters.

Average Republicans believe what they are told. They sre told tha deficits don't matter, so they support bankrupting the USA. They are told that aggressive war is freedom fighting, so they support torture, rape and murder.

They deserve the dicatorship that the USA has become.

[Felix_Nietsche]

....the Illuminati and Tri-Lateral commission are both controlled by the Republican party.

Go to go.......black helicopters are coming my way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif