wierd bubble steal: don't get 4th

[syka16]

converter no worko

$22 buy in - party


GX125DH: don't get 4th
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 10893721) - Thu Mar 31 22:35:31 EST 2005
Table Table 13809 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: GX125DH (4610)
Seat 3: DGAUGH (2970)
Seat 6: SHARKTOOTH22 (60)
Seat 8: la_cosina (360)
GX125DH posts small blind (150)
DGAUGH posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to GX125DH [ 7d, 4h ]
la_cosina: yes im going for 3rd
SHARKTOOTH22 calls (60)
SHARKTOOTH22 is all-In.
la_cosina folds.
la_cosina: thats right, ill say it
GX125DH raises (4460) to 4610
GX125DH is all-In.
DGAUGH calls (2670)
DGAUGH is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $180 with SHARKTOOTH22
Creating Side Pot 1 with $5820 with DGAUGH
Creating Side Pot 2 with $1640 with GX125DH
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7h, 7s, As ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qh ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 180 | Side Pot 1: 5820 | Side Pot 2: 1640
Board: [ 7h 7s As Qh 6h ]
GX125DH balance 7640, bet 4610, collected 7640, net +3030 [ 7d 4h ] [ three of a kind, sevens -- As,Qh,7d,7h,7s ]
DGAUGH balance 0, lost 2970 [ Kc Qc ] [ two pairs, queens and sevens -- As,Qc,Qh,7h,7s ]
SHARKTOOTH22 balance 0, lost 60 [ 8s Jc ] [ a pair of sevens -- As,Qh,Jc,7h,7s ]
la_cosina balance 360, didn't bet (folded)


I've been pretty tight on the bubble but I doubled up the hand before so I wanted to take a shot at the T900 against the BB. I typed in "don't get 4th" to remind the semilag DGAUGH to fold all but monster hands. AQ obviously a fold in my hands.

[TheUsher]

I think the thought process going on in their head wasn't "let me wait until one of the short stacks get busted before I get involved", but "oooohhh this hand looks pretty, i'm all in!". You're forgetting this is a $20 where not many people know the proper strategy in this situation.

[microbet]

Your typing "don't get 4th" may have backfired (except you got lucky).

He made a terrible call, IMO, but he didn't get 4th.

Man that EV went flying over to la_cosina.

[raptor517]

yea i push any 2 right there, dgaugh is a complete moron. holla

[curtains]

I don't push any 2 here. As you can see, idiots call sometimes, and pretty good chance BB calls too, to ensure that small stack busts. He has to come in dead last to get eliminated.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
He has to come in dead last to get eliminated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he only has to beat one of you in order to not get 4th. I think I might not push here for this reason. Maybe give th eshort stack a chance to double up.

-Jman28

[syka16]

my thinking was that this semilag would probably only call with with JJ+ AQ+ and I typed in "don't get 4th" before the deal so it wouldn't be THAT obvious (although what's obvious to a semilag?) so I'd push any 2 and hope I get 23o and double up the smallest stack that's UTG.

How can you not take advantage of this situation??? So the fish hit his top 95% calling range and I got unlucky/lucky. IMO if you don't take advantage of a chip lead here, you're not setting yourself up for 1st.

[sofere]

I posted a similar hand a while ago with two differences...consensus was I was wrong. (One main difference was that I was second stack, but big stack was not involved in the hand).

thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1989026&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[syka16]

that's not really a simmilar situation.
1. Blinds aren;t big enough to matter
2. If you get a fold, it's not a steal (SB is still in the hand)
3. You've got a mid stack limp which could be a trap (even if you've never seen him do it before)
4. The limp means that he's got at least a top 1/2 hand which increases the likelyhood of a call.
5. You're not the largest stack.

[raptor517]

the intent isnt to purely steal, it is to chip away at the second big stack. getting his 300, or even 240, to your stack, can make quite a difference.

[Jman28]

One other problem with this play is that your hand will be shown to the table.

This really is gonna hurt your stealing ability after this point.

-Jman28

[sofere]

I think more importantly, it feeds the super small stack and prolongs the bubble, making it easier to steal later on. However, the fact that the small stack is already all-in is a huge factor that will very much increase the likelihood of a call.

[Nottom]

The problem here is that the other guy knows he only needs to not be last to call here. As long as he doesn't lose to both you and the tiny stack hes getting at least 3rd. If he also knows that you will push here with any 2, that could certainly factor into his decision to call. He could easily be gambling it up to have a good shot at first with not as much risk as it may appear at first.

That said. Calling with KQ here is still terrible.

[raptor517]

i think they are all idiots, and if they call with KQ, they cant possibly be long term winners. but what do i know, im just bitter cuz im sure ive pushed 23 right there and been called by KJ and been blown away at how terrible it was. meh.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
my thinking was that this semilag would probably only call with with JJ+ AQ+ and I typed in "don't get 4th" before the deal so it wouldn't be THAT obvious (although what's obvious to a semilag?) so I'd push any 2 and hope I get 23o and double up the smallest stack that's UTG.

How can you not take advantage of this situation??? So the fish hit his top 95% calling range and I got unlucky/lucky. IMO if you don't take advantage of a chip lead here, you're not setting yourself up for 1st.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great play...that play should be memorized by any newb...its free $ 99.9 % of the time where I play.

[sofere]

I don't agree with the call either, but from a devil's advocate perspective:
You fold, BS wins...your ITM and will likely take 2nd, but BS will continue to mercilessly steal from you with shorty still around.

You fold, BS Loses...BS is gonna continue to steal mercilessly until both small stacks either double up or are out.

On the other hand...
You call - you lose to both, and your in 4th and feel like a dumbass
You call - and lose, but so does small stack...well your in third, but you stood up for yourself (you get a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside)
You call - and beat big stack...you struck gold, now your chip leader with one (or two) shorties at the table...let the stealing commence.

I still think its a bad call, but your gonna get called a lot more than you would like to in this situation, and that makes it an iffy push (as always barring any reads)

[syka16]

The guy made a mistake calling.

With AQ he's 60:40 over my push range which will give him a chip lead. But someone is going out within the orbit so there's not really a huge atvantage after ITM. So a fold is worth about $75 (2nd + a shot at 1st) and a call is worth about $50. The call is $50 b/c 60:40 give you a %60 likely 1st and a %40 4th.