Reraise or overcall on the river?

[PoBoy321]

I have a question about my river action here. Given that the villain in the hand didn't wake up until the river, is that raise on the end OK, or should I just smooth call, hope for an over call from SB and avoid a possible reraise?

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (9 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

[itsmesteve]

i think this is a smooth call. if you're ahead you should win the same amount, i don't think sb is folding for one BB closing the action. of course, if you're 3 bet you're almost definitely behind, and paying 2bb to see it. based on the way he played the hand i don't think big blind is aggressive enough to 3 bet something like 2 pair here.

[KaiShin]

Hm, strange play by BB. If he really has a straight I would think he has A4 or 64 in order to call the flop bet, but in that case he would have 3-bet the turn unless he's trying to be tricky.

The river raise is good. Your set is good more often than not here.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for only overcalling the flop.

[milesdyson]

I just raise the flop in your situation. Someone will call you down.

BTW, you should raise or fold this preflop.

[Buccaneer]

As a veteran poster here you should know that that hand should not be posted here. Did you bother to search the archives for hours or days? You know that is what is expected here. The last time we dealt with a crappy little hand like this was in October 2002. The duces should never have been played. Even a beginner that would tremble at the keyboard to post on this forum of superior poker players would know that and should berate you for not tossing that trash into the muck as soon as you saw the first 2 much less both of them. You should know that 22 is fish bait.

Now lets look at the flop. Wake up, If you must stick your head in the toliet because your cards should allready be in there. If you like them so much don't flush them but put them in when the sb and bb stay in the hand. Why in the world if you were going to play the lowest trips in poker would you not raise to isolate or cause your opponents to fold before this flop. That is the ONLY way you will win this hand. A real 2+2'er would be two embarased to claim a pot with this hand even if you chased the 4th 2 and caught it at the river.

The turn: lets make this one easy because it is. Some one has something. Can you say pair or DRAW.

The river: Toss them in, but since you didn't lets look at it. An A /images/graemlins/spade.gif!!!! A 3 bet by the BB!!!!! now add that to the board and you get A 2 3 5. I bet you never read TOP or BOTTOM and memorized the pages like the rest of us 2+2'ers were required to before we even left the book store. Right there on page 76, chapter 8, Playing Stoopid Hands it says "when the BB 3 bets and the board is A 2 3 5 one of the 4's has to be in the BB's hand, if you hold a 22 then the BB will hold 44 just to make you wonder what he is thinking.

Please in the future do not trouble the 2 + 2 board with hands like this that should spend only 3 seconds out of the muck. We are to busy ripping posters to shreads for not knowing perfect play and really do not want to take time out of our days to deal with retarded play like this.

Do you play 27o from MP too?

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear your reasoning for only overcalling the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he can learn to be rude and obnoxious then he too will be a 2+2'er and make the right play. It is probably over his head right now. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[NateDog]

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[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear your reasoning for only overcalling the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Becuase BB didn't wake up until the river, when the board became 4 to a straight. My reasoning for coldcalling and hoping for an overcall from the SB is that when I'm behind, raising knocks out the SB and I'll get 3-bet by the the BB. When I'm ahead, raising still knocks out the SB and BB will just call. So basically, cold-calling and getting an overcall from SB wins me the same amount when I'm ahead, and less when I'm behind.

Anything wrong with my thinking?

[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, you should raise or fold this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm new to short-handed limit, so bare with me a little bit. I didn't raise pre-flop because the blinds were loose in calling out of the blinds, so I knew that I had 0 fold equity, but that they would also pay me off nicely if I hit my set on the flop.

As for raising the flop, the board was uncoordinated and rainbow. I felt that raising the flop would make the blinds check to me on the turn. By cold-calling the flop, I felt that the SB would lead out again, BB would call again and I could raise there and get an additional 2 BB in the pot.

Wrong?

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
The moderator has already been notified about this post.

Please use your back button to return to the previous page.

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is no reason to report the post to the monitor. I really don't need to be told that I am entered in the 2+2 Post O' the Month contest. I did sort of sweet talk the OP and I know this shows weakness but I was in a good mood.

[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm retarded

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you are, but that's besides the point.

I explained in another reply why I played the 2s. The blinds were loose and I had nice implied odds if I hit a set.

As for calling the 3-bet on the river, if you fold here getting 14:1, you're an idiot. I felt that I would see an overplayed 2 pair often enough to make it profitable.

[NAU_Player]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

[bottomset]

you really should fold this preflop

raise the flop go from there

I wonder who's alt account bucc is and why he got so pissy

[Buccaneer]

The 2+2 forum is too complicated for you. I suggest that next time you want to play the 22 that you try the GO FISH Forum. They will tell you to always call the 22 by asking the other players if they have any 2s. If they don't then they will tell you to go fish.

You miss quoted me. I never said you were retarted.

I am just trying to post like the rest of the 2+2ers around here. Pretty obnoxious isn't it.

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
As for raising the flop, the board was uncoordinated and rainbow. I felt that raising the flop would make the blinds check to me on the turn. By cold-calling the flop, I felt that the SB would lead out again, BB would call again and I could raise there and get an additional 2 BB in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately by waiting until the turn to raise you run the risk of giving your opponents a decent draw on which to call your turn raise with. Your position ensures that if BB calls SB's lead bet, he will definitely call your raise and probably call two bets if SB 3-bets the turn.

By raising the flop, you'd lose a BB assuming they both check to you on the turn and call your turn bet, but notice your turn bet would offer 5.5:1 instead of the 7:1 you're offering by raising the turn. An OESD would probably still call, but at least you're not making it easy on them.

I like your idea if you were between SB and BB, but not when you're closing the action.

[GrunchCan]

This hand belongs in HUSH. But there is something to be learned by all microers about playing 22 preflop in LMP at a ring, so since its here...

Open 22 for a raise at a short table or fold, especially at a 5-handed table. Here's why:

You want to take 22 against as few or as many opponents as possible. You don't want to take it against 3 opponents, or even to a lesser extent against 2 opponents. By taking it against fewer opponents, you hope to win unimproved against something like Ax. By taking it against many opponents, you hope to flop a set and make many bets against many opponents.

Since its very unlikely that you will be able to get this hand multiway (b/c everybody already folded), if you spike your set you won't make up the 10 SBs you need to show a profit. Therefore, you should not limp here.

You aren't on the button here, so a PFR by you might not get you position or shorthanded. The button could call your raise or even 3-bet himself. A passive button might call 2 if he is also loose. A tight button will only call with hands you are far behind or a coinflip against, and will 3-bet you with hands that you are behind. If the button 3-bets, the blinds will likely fold, leaving you HU OOP against a hand that is likely to be better than yours.

With no read on the opponents, or with a TAGish read against the button, I fold 22 in this spot. Before I invest 2 bets PF with 22, I want to know its a good investment.