Do you fold to blatant value bet in small pot (river)? [Archive]

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beset7

03-31-2005, 07:59 PM

1st hand at the table. Ever notice how many posts involve the first hand/orbit at a table. I'm sure there is something profound about that just don't ask me what it is.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($25)
CO ($42.53)
Button ($47.92)
SB ($24.5)
BB ($43.7)
UTG ($16.9)
UTG+1 ($39.25)
MP1 ($9.75)
MP2 ($47.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.75) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $1.5, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls $1.50, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($4.75) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($4.75) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $2, Hero calls ???

Comments on turn check also welcome. I can't think of anything that would call a bet there that doesn't beat me. Not as worried about a flush draw because of runner runner. Why he called the flop bet is the big question mark. I'd speculate worse ten, two pair or a slow played set when against a $25 PP unknown.

Brian462

03-31-2005, 08:47 PM

I bet the turn every single time. Not a full pot bet but something like half pot. I can think of about a dozen hands that will call you that you still beat. Every one of them has live outs against your hand so checking is basically giving the pot away.

As far as the river goes, I fold to anyone who is somewhat tight or passive and call the looser more aggressive types.

beset7

03-31-2005, 09:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the turn every single time. Not a full pot bet but something like half pot. I can think of about a dozen hands that will call you that you still beat. Every one of them has live outs against your hand so checking is basically giving the pot away.

As far as the river goes, I fold to anyone who is somewhat tight or passive and call the looser more aggressive types.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input on turn/river.

I usually bet the turn on hands like this but I've been trying to decrease the amount of money I lose with temporary TPTK on raggity flops vs. passive players. Generally I'm thinking that betting the turn and then folding to a raise or check folding/calling the river depending on read is probably the best line.

I know in small pots it doesn't seem like a big deal but little things like this have a big impact on bb/100 long-term.

DasLeben

03-31-2005, 09:05 PM

I agree with the above poster about betting the turn. I'd probably stick 1/2-3/4 of the pot out there and see what he does.

Getting 3:1 on the river call, I call every time.

beset7

03-31-2005, 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the above poster about betting the turn. I'd probably stick 1/2-3/4 of the pot out there and see what he does.

Getting 3:1 on the river call, I call every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking and so I called.

But after I did the thought occured to me "is 3-1 good enough when EVERYTHING about the hands points to him having a strong hand?" Maybe I'm giving too much credit to $25 NL players but who gives the flop aggressor the odds to call on a three-flush board with a hand I can beat? 11-1 wouldn't be good enough if there is a 100% chance I beat.

DasLeben

03-31-2005, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm giving too much credit to $25 NL players

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's the thing. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Honestly though, that's the only reason I'd call. As you said, against a solid player, getting 3:1 really wouldn't matter if you know you're beat. But against generic 25NL players, well, I'd call every time.