The best lessons?

[Aaron W.]

What is the greatest poker lesson you've ever learned and how did you learn it? (I'm talking actual *POKER* advice, not posting advice about starting fewer threads and responding to more, and not getting your ego involved in discussions...)

[mmbt0ne]

MUBS is what seperates a break-even player froma winning player. I can't point to an exact post, but it was early on in my posting career, post-WLLH and pre-SSHE.

[UncleSalty]

What's MUBS?

For me (and I have a looong way to go still) I have gained the most value from two particularly good concepts:

1. Equity Edges vs. Pot Odds in determining when to raise/call/fold with drawing hands.
2. Misinterpreting SSH advice to call river bets when you think you're beat. I was calling WAY too many bets on the river.

Clarkmeister's Theorum is another gem I like to use a lot, and today's discussion of the check/raise has been very informative too.

[GrunchCan]

mubs?

[GrunchCan]

Learning the 6max game. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[mmbt0ne]

Monsters Under the Bed Syndrome. Too much folding, too much calling. Also known as wearing a skirt. Here's me modeling my finest skirt last night(conveniently enough, I'm $2 short of 1/2 level in the SSOIC, I suck):

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (24.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 26.25 BB

I wanted to crawl under a rock when I clicked call. Bleh.

[scotty34]

This did not come as one revolutionary idea from one post, but its something I've come to learn over reading all of the posts here. It has to do with looking at the long run rather than your play on a specific hand, and also in terms of pot equity and such. Just because you make a great laydown, or make a great read and call a bluff, doesn't mean its a good play. More often than not, making this laydown or call will cost you money. I posted this in a response to a thread earlier today, and I kind of like how it sounded. The 'right play' isn't always the 'right play.'

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Learning the 6max game. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I need to add a couple things.

FPS used to be a big problem for me. Getting over it was a major challenge.

Bluffing was a big problem for me. Both me bluffing too often, and also thinking that my opponents are bluffing too often. This was also a major challenge for me.

[imported_Dogzilla]

AA A8 A4 A6? Guess not.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mmbt0ne]

Bah, the turn stop and go really messed with my head. I wanted to go 2 bets on the river really bad, but was scared of 3. I think it would've been the right play though, because he'll call with any A, and probably 3-bet with plenty of high aces that I'm still beating.

[tiltaholic]

How:
Reading the all the posts written by the micro ringleaders of this time last year.
Snippets:
too many to list - but here are some of them from when I first started playing:

What it means to play tight preflop (Ax is bad?)
Outs.
Pot odds.
"Monsters under the bed"
"Do not fear the flush"
"Bet the damn flop"

and this exercise from a post by bisonbison:
"There are two session gimmicks which I think are good:

1. The Odds
Simply put: every time you call a bet, you must determine your pot odds, and the odds you have of improving your hand (i.e. two pair if you have a pair, a made hand if you have a draw, a pair if you have nothing...). If you're playing online, you have to say these things aloud. Every single time.

After you've mastered The Odds, you can proceed to:

2. The Why
Justify, out loud, every single action you are taking.

"I am folding preflop because this is a trash hand"
"I am raising preflop because I believe I have the best hand and I want to limit the field."
"I am raising preflop because this hand does very well multiway."
"I am folding the flop because I don't have the odds to chase."
"I am checking because I want to checkraise. I believe the flop bettor will bet again, and this will force the people between us to call 2 BB cold."
"I am calling the river because I think there's at least a one in twelve chance I'll win."

If you can't figure out why you did what you did, or if you think it was a stupid reason or you had no idea what to do or why, make a note and post the hand here. "

[Stuey]

Hope I am not off topic. But I think the ideas in this thread about The most difficult thing about poker (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1988221&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1#Post2045263) could be helpful.

[ QUOTE ]
What is the greatest poker lesson you've ever learned and how did you learn it?

[/ QUOTE ]

My answer would be learning what I can and can't control at a poker table. To be a good player you have to control your actions. But I would try to control everything.

Realizing there is a huge amount I have no control over. If I raise TT and get 6 callers but get a bad flop and have to fold it. Or if I raise TT and only the blind calls but I flop trips only to have the blind fold to my first bet. Realizing that raising TT is the right play regardless of the outcome.

Do what I can and let the results take care of themselves.

How did I learn it?

I don't think I have yet! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[detruncate]

Expectations are poison. It's not about where you think you should be, it's about where you are.

Every time I start to get ahead of myself or think I should be ________, I get bitch-slapped back to reality. Painfully. Appropriately.

The only thing you can ever control is the quality of the next decision you make.

[Aaron W.]

The best lesson I learned is pretty close to Stuey's. I am responsible for my play; play well and the results will take care of themselves. If I get outdrawn *AGAIN*, it's not my fault, it's not their fault, it's not the dealer's fault -- there is *NO* fault. It's luck, and that's the game. I made the right play (hopefully), and that's my goal. If I don't like it that way, then I shouldn't be playing.

Related to this is the idea that I am responsible for my play (yes, I meant to say that). If the game conditions change, I am responsible for figuring out the appropriate adjustments and then making them. For a lot of players here, that means "change tables". There's nothing wrong with that response. But as a player who desires to constantly move up to beat the higher games, it is to my benefit to stay at these games and figure them out (there used to be an essay on here about learning to beat tougher games, but the essay section has disappeared somewhere). The implication is that I cannot and should not go into autopilot. Autopilot is smaller EV than paying attention.

[kenberman]

in 2 words: Table Selection

playing with 9 other people equally skilled as you is a losing proposition

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]

and this exercise from a post by bisonbison:
"There are two session gimmicks which I think are good:

1. The Odds
Simply put: every time you call a bet, you must determine your pot odds, and the odds you have of improving your hand (i.e. two pair if you have a pair, a made hand if you have a draw, a pair if you have nothing...). If you're playing online, you have to say these things aloud. Every single time.


[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to be kidding me!? You don't do this all the time? I play 12 tables and I do it for every hand. Out loud. In spanish. And I'm not fluent in Spanish.

[benkath1]

Even bad players can play good cards well.

Some times I get in a hand with a moron and think, he could have that hand.... there's just no way. But I'm still new, and there's plenty more for me to learn.

Nice post!

[KaiShin]

The greatest poker lesson I ever learned is: I will never know everything there is to know about poker.

Followed closely by: Taking your bad beats and controlling your tilt.

[MrWookie47]

I think I'll chime in with learning preflop standards. It's such an easy concept to teach, but it has a tremendous impact on your game. Moving from playing anything to playing "good" cards to only playing cards that will give you back more than the SB you invest is not only critical to your play, but it gets you to start thinking critically about your play.

Other than that, I think learning the "check/call check/call bet" line added quite a bit on its own, not because I need to use it every time, but because the thought processes behind it help take you from the "me have best hand, me raise" mentality to one that will win more.

Ah, and then there's avoiding tilt. Invaluable, and fortunately, I've mostly avoided learning it the hard way. Just tonight, I was delt KK, KK, and then AA in the span of 6 hands, and had each of them cracked by huge dogs. For the most part, thanks to all the advice and warnings here, I've been able to keep playing well in spite of bad beats, but tonight was best to just call it a night.

[Delphin]

[ QUOTE ]
Other than that, I think learning the "check/call check/call bet" line added quite a bit on its own, not because I need to use it every time, but because the thought processes behind it help take you from the "me have best hand, me raise" mentality to one that will win more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Could someone link to threads where this is discussed?

[MrWookie47]

Here is one of many places it's been discussed recently, and by many of the best posters here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=888296&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1

Poke around for way ahead/way behind (WA/WB).

[GrunchCan]

Ok, here's a great thread I just found while scouring old posts.

Its related to NL MTTs, but its a good thread. There's a lot of crap that you have to wade through, but lots of good information to reward those with rubber pants on.


link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlinker.php?Cat=&amp;Entry=84554&amp;F_Board=tourn&amp;Threa d=1282710&amp;partnumber=1&amp;postmarker=)

[bonaparte]

This is the best lesson I have learned:

Listen to those who have traveled before you! (and are successful)

2+2 has been a great place for that. It is hard to comprehend the amount of knowledge I have gained by listening/lurking the 2+2 gurus. Everyone here has been a great help.

[btspider]

i thought i replied to this..

way ahead, way behind was a real eye opener for me once i was able to apply the concepts to more than the prototypial situations.