Raising or not with AA on the button

[D.J.]

This situation happened a little while ago, and it bothered me then as well as now. I'm playing 9-18 at Commerce, and I get AA on the button. There are 3 limpers in front of me and I raise, the details of the hand do not matter. Furthermore, this kind of know it all guy after I'm stacking my chips starts lecturing me for about 10 min. about how it was not a good play to raise with my AA on the button after 3 limpers b/c no one is going to fold and I would not get an accurate read on anyone on the flop b/c they would all check to me. He said I should limp and raise the flop. Anyway, we argued back and forth, which I don't like to do at the table but this guy was pissing me off, and it just bugged me that he was basically getting on me about raising my AA on the button. My question is wouldn't most of you do the same and raise your aces, or is this guy right?

-D.J.

Even if the blinds fold you're still getting three extra small bets from the limpers when you raise. Typically, you may lose customers when you bet the flop.

I say raise whenever you have the best hand just for the extra equity.

[Pot-A]

Your know-it-all friend is full of it.

First of all, you're gonna have a lot easier time "getting an accurate read" on the blinds if you can make them fold and leave their dead money in the pot.

Secondly, if any of your opponents are worth their salt they'll bet into you if they don't see an ace or king on the flop, at which point you can raise. If everyone checks around to you, rejoice, you're in a really weak game. But you should still bet while you're rejoicing.

Anyway, with pocket aces you're still the favorite before the flop, so you don't really mind if you get lots of customers, especially since you have the best position.

You might be able to make some case for checking, say, AKo in the small blind to keep the pot smaller and devalue draws. But with pocket aces you should really come out shooting.

[J.A.Sucker]

This guy is a moron, and therefore you should just agree with him that he's right and you'll heed his advice next time. You have the best possible hand in the best possible position with many people in the pot. What's tough about this? If you don't raise here, you should be shot. The best thing about this is that if the flop comes K or Q hi, and somebody's got one of those, then they will often "check to the raiser", hoping to checkraise, because they feel cool doing it, not because it's necessarily the right thing to do. Now, you can 3 bet their ass - and you'll often get some callers of 1 bet (in EP) who then will fold on the flop when it's 2 more to go. This is beautiful. You could also wait till the turn to raise the check raiser, this is another option.

You should be raising a lot of hands from the button if you're gonna play them after many limpers - suited connectors, good-sized pairs, and hands like AQ and AKo, and even suited Ax. You can raise other pocket pairs after this many limpers if you think that the blinds will play, since you'll build a huge freaking pot. Also, if they will check to the raiser on the flop (which often happens), raising a hand like K9s is also good, since you can take a free card. Good luck. /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Ed Miller]

I've heard more dumb pre-flop strategies from know-it-all players than I know what to do with. I usually just say, "Ok," and generally just pretend I have no idea what they are talking about if they press the issue. They lose interest in teaching you and you continue the game. It's more polite than just stone ignoring them, but honestly these people are obnoxious and almost deserve that.

If you always raised preflop with AA in every position and situation, then you would be so close to optimal that it's probably not even worth mentioning exceptions.

[mike l.]

"This situation happened a little while ago, and it bothered me then as well as now. I'm playing 9-18 at Commerce"

im already bothered by it. that game sucks, the rake is absurd. that place sucks. play the 10-20 at hollywood park.

"it was not a good play to raise with my AA on the button after 3 limpers b/c no one is going to fold and I would not get an accurate read on anyone on the flop b/c they would all check to me. He said I should limp and raise the flop."

well i never say never. although i dont think ive ever limped with AA *after* that many limpers it sure as hell would disguise my hand against attentive players. i think ill give it (or something similar) a try one of these days.

that said, the guy is clearly a bit of an idiot who has very little understanding of the game. god bless 'im.

"Anyway, we argued back and forth, which I don't like to do at the table but this guy was pissing me off, and it just bugged me that he was basically getting on me about raising my AA on the button."

oh well that's no good. more than trying to make a point he was just trying to get your goat and throw you off your game potentitally and you fell for it at least somewhat.

if i were you then and i was on my emotional game at that moment (rare), my play wouldve been to look at him with a big smile and say "wow i never thought of it that way. you make some really great points. thanks, ill keep that in mind." either he'd have tilted out of control, or even more likely he'd decide you and him were buddies and he would start folding to your bluffs out of respect and checking it down with you heads up when he holds the nuts. ive pulled this nice guy con repeatedly at the tables, it's a real winner.

[D.J.]

Mike L.,
I believe that i mentioned this before in response to a post that you made, I would much rather play the 9-18 at Commerce as opposed to the 10-20 at HPC a.k.a. the tightest game in town. I make a lot more money playing 9-18 than I ever could playing the 10-20 at HPC, the way I see it is I'm making 15-30 or 20-40 money playing 9-18 with 1/3 the risk. I say the hell with the rake, I can get over it when every pot is $150-$400, those pots at HPC hardly ever get that big, I know I've played the 10 there several times with the same tight players day in day out.

-D.J.