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View Full Version : Hand #1 Push the flop?

Tim H
03-31-2005, 01:52 PM
don't have the hand history
$25 max PS NL

Hero BB with QT suited and $25
everyone in hand has $20-$30

UTG raises to $1.50, 4 callers, I call
Flop: KQJ rainbow
I check, UTG bets $4.50 with 2 callers, I push and its me and UTG heads up.

Stupid? Thoughts
Tilt
03-31-2005, 01:58 PM
Yuck.
Tim H
03-31-2005, 02:06 PM
figured. Normally, I nut peddle and am trying to change things around. Let's say I call and the turn in the 9 (which it was) what's my play then. Do you think villian is betting his KJ at this point?
PinkSteel
03-31-2005, 02:10 PM
I'm guessing that means....

"I wouldn't have called the preflop raise, or called the flop bet, or pushed the flop. I would have folded at every opportunity."
Kaz The Original
03-31-2005, 02:15 PM
What was your thinking preflop? Was it 'i have an easily dominated hand that will make me alot of second bests'? Or was it 'oooh pretty'.

the flop push isn't THAT bad considering the $10 in the pot, but it's not a big money maker.
swolfe
03-31-2005, 02:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
figured. Normally, I nut peddle and am trying to change things around. Let's say I call and the turn in the 9 (which it was) what's my play then. Do you think villian is betting his KJ at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really put him on KJ after he raises from UTG?

i don't hate it although i'd rather have a flush draw to go along with it...

let me ask this...what were you thinking when you made this move? what did you want UTG to do?

EDIT: i do hate the pre-flop call though...
Tim H
03-31-2005, 02:22 PM
my thinking was this :
If I am gonna play this hand and if I get a flop that hits the str or flush or 2 pr I am pushing, anything else I am folding. Flop: KQ5 = fold, QJ5 = fold
Tilt
03-31-2005, 02:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that means....

"I wouldn't have called the preflop raise, or called the flop bet, or pushed the flop. I would have folded at every opportunity."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Another title for this thread could be "how to lose a stack", or "Gambling on three out is fun".
Tilt
03-31-2005, 02:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
figured. Normally, I nut peddle and am trying to change things around. Let's say I call and the turn in the 9 (which it was) what's my play then. Do you think villian is betting his KJ at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't listen to zaxx so much. Just fold this preflop. At this level you need to exploit your opponents greatest weakness - which is calling too much - rather than make it a strength by making overbet bluffs when they likely have strong hands.
george w of poker
03-31-2005, 03:12 PM
I don't think the preflop call is bad at all. utg raises with 4 callers so you have a family pot with a drawing hand. Granted, you are out of position but what the pot is laying you makes up for it I think. Also, you don't generally make second best hands with QT unless you're one to get married to tpnk. You do make nut straights and 3rd nut flushes though.

I'm not thrilled with the push, especially since two people called his bet.
IUPlaya
03-31-2005, 04:05 PM
I'm not crayz about the preflop call, but I definitely don't like the push at all. From my 25NL experience, you get called by top pair right there. You don't hit your straight or backdoor flush your toast. I most likely fold the flop; even if you hit your straight, your still easily beaten.
IUPlaya
03-31-2005, 04:07 PM
Also AT is common hand, you could be trying to catch up. Another reason I get out.
Sam T.
03-31-2005, 04:42 PM
If you're comforable with post-flop play (and ideally have some reads) thanks to all the limpers I don't mind the PF call. Just remember why you're in the hand to begin with - you want the str8 and/or flush because even if you hit two pair you are undoubtedly looking at some very strong draws.

With the initial bet and two callers, your str8 draws may be to a split pot (if you hit your Ace) or the ignorant end (if you hit your nine). Fold.

Sam
Tim H
03-31-2005, 05:29 PM
I am getting pot odds to call the flop bet with 8 outs (possibly 10 outs if count Q) but I would like anyone with an A or T to fold, so I disagree with saying to fold the flop.
Everyone (bettor/2callers/me) have a piece of this flop but how much is still unknown.
If an A or 9 hits I highly doubt I am going to get paid enough to justify playing this hand.
With an all in I am making it "incorrect" assuming UTG calls for the next person to call ($60 in pot laying 3:1 on a $20 call) with a T or an A and these are the hands I want to fold because I am doomed with a ten hitting the board and chop with anyone with a T.