View Full Version : taking the LSAT
goofball
03-31-2005, 04:20 AM
So when I'm not playing poker lately I'm playing video games. That's all well and good but I decided to take the LSAT. Why? Partially because it's there, partially because I just want to, partially because if I did exorbitantly well I might go to law school.
What books are good to study from? Any other advice?
the Kaplan book is pretty good. just be smart, it's not hard.
b0000000000m
03-31-2005, 04:26 AM
The kaplan book sucks. Kaplan, in general, is geared towards improving people with crappy scores to "ok" scores. Not good -> great, or great->amazing. And the tests that they themselves create are a sorry substitute for the real thing. Just buy a bunch of old, REAL LSATs, and take them under real conditions to prepare.
goofball
03-31-2005, 04:31 AM
right. I'm not looking to get a 160 or 165. I'm looking to get a 180. I did extremely well on the GREs, I got my degree in physics, I definetly don't want the kind of book that moves you from "marginal" to "acceptable"
[ QUOTE ]
The kaplan book sucks. Kaplan, in general, is geared towards improving people with crappy scores to "ok" scores. Not good -> great, or great->amazing. And the tests that they themselves create are a sorry substitute for the real thing. Just buy a bunch of old, REAL LSATs, and take them under real conditions to prepare.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe that's true, but my anecdotal evidence says otherwise. my friend took a Kaplan course and went from a sub-160 score on his diagnostic to a 177 on the real thing. he's now at stanford law.
small sample, i know.
i agree, old LSATs are a good study tool.
[ QUOTE ]
right. I'm not looking to get a 160 or 165. I'm looking to get a 180. I did extremely well on the GREs, I got my degree in physics, I definetly don't want the kind of book that moves you from "marginal" to "acceptable"
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no, i figured that. i still think the practice tests in the kaplan book can help you. old LSATs, which someone else suggested, are probably even better.
anyway if you're shooting for a 180 then a 165 wouldn't even be "acceptable" at any school you would apply to. conversely if you are applying to schools which routinely accept students with 165s, why spend a lot of energy trying to get a 180 when you can pull a 170 without much effort.
zaxx19
03-31-2005, 05:19 AM
For the record 171 with no prepping....
And if you think doing well on the GRE's is any sort of indicator of performance on the Lsat....well...have fun.
Being a physics major isnt gonna help that much either IMHO.
The best indication would probably be how you did on the old Verbal section of the SAT>
or your Verbal IQ>
Just my 2 cents.
I took one of those prep classes but didn't attend regularly enough or work that hard to prepare. A mistake in hindsight, but maybe it made no difference. I don't remember what I scored. Well enough for the schools I was looking hard at I guess. Anyway, I always did reasonably well on standardized tests, but I think a prep class can really help. Once I got to law school the only test I really cared about was the bar exam. For that I took a class and was very glad I did. I just showed up for the classes and did exactly what they said. Nothing less, but believe me, nothing more. I worked hard enough but didn't go nuts. Scored well on the bar. I like the structure of a prep class in part because it is too easy to sit around playing video games at home when your plan is just to read the books.
miajag81
03-31-2005, 11:37 AM
Don't bother with the prep classes. Just take lots of practice tests.
bogey
03-31-2005, 11:56 AM
get the book 10 real LSAT's, theres no strategy advice, just real tests from the past, take at least 6 of them, more if not satisfied with results
dont bother with the other crap
lucas9000
03-31-2005, 12:00 PM
don't do it. i had more fun taking the bar exam. it really sucks, and unless you really want to go to law school why put in the time and money to study?
that said, i didn't take any of the classes...i just bought a book and studied on my own. i did pretty damm good too. nevertheless, it was the WORST test experience of my life, even worse than the bar (and i'm a good test-taker).
lucas9000
03-31-2005, 12:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The kaplan book sucks. Kaplan, in general, is geared towards improving people with crappy scores to "ok" scores. Not good -> great, or great->amazing. And the tests that they themselves create are a sorry substitute for the real thing. Just buy a bunch of old, REAL LSATs, and take them under real conditions to prepare.
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe that's true, but my anecdotal evidence says otherwise. my friend took a Kaplan course and went from a sub-160 score on his diagnostic to a 177 on the real thing. he's now at stanford law.
small sample, i know.
i agree, old LSATs are a good study tool.
[/ QUOTE ]
those classes make sure you score really poorly on their diagnostics, and especially the ones you take early in the class, so that you're bound to improve over the course of the class.
zeke1111
03-31-2005, 12:13 PM
Seriously consider whether you want to go to law school. You accumulate debt for three years, and then you have to be a lawyer. If I could do it over again, I would have just gotten a job right out of college. Being a lawyer kind of blows. Just my two cents....
zeke1111
03-31-2005, 12:15 PM
Oh, and I agree that the best way to study for the LSAT is to take the practice tests.
Mr. Zero
03-31-2005, 12:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously consider whether you want to go to law school. You accumulate debt for three years, and then you have to be a lawyer. If I could do it over again, I would have just gotten a job right out of college. Being a lawyer kind of blows. Just my two cents....
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I just want to second part of this - the debt. You don't really think about it before you get into law school and then BAM, you've got 120K in debt. That's about $1100 a month spread out over twenty years.
I've been fortunate enough to do well in school and get a nice job, but for those in the middle to bottom of the class with no jobs yet (market is tight at the moment)...well...I'm sure they'll have fun with that debt load.
lucas9000
03-31-2005, 12:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I've been fortunate enough to do well in school and get a nice job, but for those in the middle to bottom of the class with no jobs yet (market is tight at the moment)...well...I'm sure they'll have fun with that debt load.
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i have friends that i went to law school with that still don't have jobs. they are NOT liking their situation.
zeke1111
03-31-2005, 12:27 PM
Yeah, and even if you do well and can get a good job, there is a chance that you won't like being a lawyer. I know many people in this situation. It becomes tough to justify leaving the profession of law when you still are paying for law school (and will be doing so for a long time). Best of luck with your decision.
mcteecho
03-31-2005, 12:35 PM
Ditto. 99th percentile in 1983 (before existing scoring system - I don't even know what 165 or 180 is "out of"). No classes, but about 6 practice tests in the two weeks before the sitting, to become familiar with the structure of questions.
on_thg
03-31-2005, 12:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Being a lawyer very much blows. Just my two cents....
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Fixed your post. And ditto. If you're not committed, don't waste the money.
I never studied a second for the LSAT. If you're a good standardized test taker, there's not much need.
zeke1111
03-31-2005, 12:49 PM
Sad, but true. Goofball, from your initial post, you seem fairly uninterested in becoming a lawyer. Definitely think about whether you want to invest three years and $100,000 on the chance that you (1) will get a good enough job to pay off your debt; and (2) will not loathe being a lawyer (like me and, apparently, others). If your heart isn't in it, those are some bad odds, my friend.
MasterShakes
03-31-2005, 01:15 PM
Why is everybody assuming that if he goes to law school, he's going to accumulate $100,000 or more in debt? MANY states have law schools established by the state schools within the state, and several of them are very good. In Ohio, Ohio State is considered the best law school in the state (we have a lot of them), and there is no way he would run up $100,000 in debt there. $50,000 would be more like it, and it would be even less if he went to U of Akron or U of Toledo (both respectable law schools). I'm sure the situation is the same in a couple other states.
If you want to take the LSAT and go to law school, do it because either you want to use the degree for something specific, other than being a lawyer (it happens), or because you want to be a lawyer - not becuase you're bored.
Mr. Zero
03-31-2005, 01:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why is everybody assuming that if he goes to law school, he's going to accumulate $100,000 or more in debt? MANY states have law schools established by the state schools within the state, and several of them are very good. In Ohio, Ohio State is considered the best law school in the state (we have a lot of them), and there is no way he would run up $100,000 in debt there. $50,000 would be more like it, and it would be even less if he went to U of Akron or U of Toledo (both respectable law schools). I'm sure the situation is the same in a couple other states.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm at CWRU - so I'll argue that OSU is tops in Ohio! You're 100% right. I was simply trying to point out that he needs to THINK about the cost before going. To continue the horror stories - a buddy financed four years of undergrad at Johns Hopkins followed by another three of private law school at Case. He's got 250k in debt and no job. Try amortizing THAT over thirty years, then add a mortgage, car payment, etc., etc.
I think it's kinda like credit card debt for the average american. You rack up the charges and figure, oh, I'll pay for it later. Not the best approach.
BeerMoney
03-31-2005, 01:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is everybody assuming that if he goes to law school, he's going to accumulate $100,000 or more in debt? MANY states have law schools established by the state schools within the state, and several of them are very good. In Ohio, Ohio State is considered the best law school in the state (we have a lot of them), and there is no way he would run up $100,000 in debt there. $50,000 would be more like it, and it would be even less if he went to U of Akron or U of Toledo (both respectable law schools). I'm sure the situation is the same in a couple other states.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm at CWRU - so I'll argue that OSU is tops in Ohio! You're 100% right. I was simply trying to point out that he needs to THINK about the cost before going. To continue the horror stories - a buddy financed four years of undergrad at Johns Hopkins followed by another three of private law school at Case. He's got 250k in debt and no job. Try amortizing THAT over thirty years, then add a mortgage, car payment, etc., etc.
I think it's kinda like credit card debt for the average american. You rack up the charges and figure, oh, I'll pay for it later. Not the best approach.
[/ QUOTE ]
MrZero, I think you offer important insight, as does the poster who say law school can be affordable. A lot of people make decisions about education while ignoring the financial burden, as if it will just disappear. Not smart.
As for the studying stuff, get the "10 Practice LSAT's" They have about 3 books out by now, so you can get 30 tests. The also have some books that have answer explanations. I disagree with zaxx19, and will say your physics background will be a big help with the logic section of the test. And I would also argue that it will help you get accepted, in that it will bring true diversity to their school in that you won't be the typical Poli Sci major.
check out www.lsac.org (http://www.lsac.org) for more information. I think everyone that has posted has given you good advice.
Let us know how it goes.
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