This time I'm the trapped fish [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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littlejohn

03-31-2005, 04:15 AM

This is my posting hand at the table and I don't have any stats on villians here. How's the play?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $3.
3 folds, Hero (poster) checks, 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB 3-bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

Niediam

03-31-2005, 04:23 AM

Fold to the first bet on the flop. The 8 is no longer a clean out as anybody with a T has a higher straight and you don't know if BB and Button are going to go at it again like they did on the flop. I would have played the hand up to that point the same.

mikeyvegas

03-31-2005, 04:51 AM

On the flop, i probably just call the bet by BB to see what the he buttons reaction is. And even with your oesd, that 8 would open you up to a possible redraw on the turn.

On the turn, looking at the flop action, it sure looks like BB and button are going to war with either overpair vs. overpair, set vs. set, overpair vs. set, set vs. two pair, overpair vs. two pair. I almost think that all of your outs are live and may be inclined to call their turn bets hoping to take advatage of their aggression on the river if you hit. I can't think of a hand that goes that crazy on flop that contains a 10.

Nick C

03-31-2005, 05:08 AM

Preflop: I don't have a big problem with the call, but I think folding to Button's raise is at least something to consider. I realize he might be raising lighter than usual because of the extra blind money, but you're still only getting about 5:1, your hand is pretty weak, and Button does have position on you.

Flop: I'd probably just call the initial bet, thinking my chances of winning without a showdown against a PFR and someone who bet into the PFR aren't that good, and also thinking catching a pair quite likely won't do me much good, even versus just the BB. I think I'd prefer not to drive Button off of overcards, if that's what he has and a raise will get him out.

Turn: Uncomfortable though I'd be at this point, I'd probably stick it out. I wouldn't want to fold to the first bet and watch Button merely call behind me (and we don't know how Button will react to BB's flop cap and turn bet yet). Also, while it's unfortunate if someone has a ten, I'm not assuming they do. Anyway, when it came back two more to me, I'd grudgingly call again. If Button raised the flop with A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif or has, say, TT, then that's unfortunate. But I think an overpair or a set is more likely for him, and it seems to me that BB most likely has been fastplaying a flopped set or two pair (or even overpair) of his own. I'm thinking there's a good chance my outs are clean.

elindauer

03-31-2005, 05:56 AM

You are worried, rightly so on this board, that an 8 won't be good and that you are drawing to only 4 outs. However, the flop action indicated that both of your opponents hit the flop hard, so T8 is right out and JT is unlikely. Your draw is almost always fully live, and you get big implied odds on the offsuit threes. Call.

Good luck.
Eric

DeeJ

03-31-2005, 06:10 AM

I don't like the flop raise-on-a-weak-draw. If you had called, buttong raised, BB reraised you could have got out earlier. You're paying 1/3 of the pot for a draw that will come in only 1/6 of the time, since nobody seems like they are going anywhere.....

Nick C

03-31-2005, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop raise-on-a-weak-draw. If you had called, buttong raised, BB reraised you could have got out earlier. You're paying 1/3 of the pot for a draw that will come in only 1/6 of the time, since nobody seems like they are going anywhere.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, DeeJ, so long as Hero plans to continue until the river, his OESD will come in considerably more often than that.

Carmine

03-31-2005, 06:30 AM

I'm dumping this PF. Not enough players to keep me interested with this weak of a hand even against a posssible blind/poster steal attempt.

On the flop I want someone to correct if I am wrong. You have the odds to call the bet by BB but not an equity edge against only two players to be pumping a OESD. By raising you also just turned a profitable call into an unprofitable one of 7:2 on a 5:1 shot. Although implied odds helps you. It's like you are your own worst enemy here. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Nick C

03-31-2005, 06:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop I want someone to correct if I am wrong. You have the odds to call the bet by BB but not an equity edge against only two players to be pumping a OESD. By raising you also just turned a profitable call into an unprofitable one of 7:2 on a 5:1 shot. Although implied odds helps you. It's like you are your own worst enemy here. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

The straight will come in by the river 31.5 percent of the time.

But I agree that Hero does not have an equity edge on the flop, and I prefer a flop call to a raise.

DeeJ

03-31-2005, 06:39 AM

Yes, you're absolutely correct. That's why it's tight because 1/6 twice is 1/3 /images/graemlins/smile.gif but as has been said the outs aren't clean.

Nick C

03-31-2005, 06:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but as has been said the outs aren't clean.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I wouldn't fold on the flop no matter what the action was, I wouldn't raise either, and I do agree that it's not the best OESD in the world.

DeeJ

03-31-2005, 06:46 AM

I don't like the flop raise and would rate a call better.

Preflop I was tempted to fold but getting 5:1 I think it's a close EV call but closing the betting it's worth seeing a flop I think.

bakku

03-31-2005, 08:00 AM

flop raise no good, turn fold no good..anyone raise PF?

chesspain

03-31-2005, 08:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
flop raise no good, turn fold no good..anyone raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, yes,...no.

27offsooot

03-31-2005, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
flop raise no good, turn fold no good..anyone raise PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I posted in the CO and it folded to me, of course I'd raise. I don't really know why he posted in MP2 though. I don't raise it from here if by accident, I did post.

To add to the chorus: call the flop and don't fold the turn.

runa

03-31-2005, 05:50 PM

I would raise it PF if they were sooooted...j/k

Given your position and the players involved I don't like the flop raise, and while there's a chance some of your 8 outs ar dirty, I think you definitely have to call the turn.