8-16 flopped flush

[Jesse Richman]

8-16 game at Oceans 11. Lousy game, most opponents tight-agressive, though predictable. A few players have recently joined the game from a broken 20-40 game.

2 players limp in EP, I limp in MP with QsJs (anyone raise here?), SB completes, BB raps, 5 to the flop.

Flop: 2s4s5s

SB checks, BB bets out. Both EP limpers call. I raise. SB folds, BB 3-bets, EP limpers fold, I call. (Anyone 4-bet here?)

Turn (2s4s5s)9c

BB bets out. I raise. BB 3 bets.

How do you play the rest of the hand? Results to follow.

[Jesse Richman]

I called on the turn and check-called the river. BB turned over As3s for the flopped Steel Wheel, I mucked.

Looking back, I really feel like I should have laid it down to the three bet on the turn, but the possibility that my opponant was only on either the nut-n-gut or open-ended SF draws kept me in.

Any opinions would be appreciated, I feel like one of my biggest leaks right now is an inability to lay down big hands at times, but with such a large pot and the range of possibilities for the BB here I'm not convinced it would have been correct.

[Ginogino]

Jesse:
When the flop comes and BB 3-bets you have to become curious whether there's another flush out there, and, if so, how big it is. I'm a fan of 4-betting the flop. I think most opponents would be hesitant to 5-bet with hands that beat your cards (sets, straights), and so if a 5-bet came I'd figure I was up against a flush, and that more often than not it was a better flush. I feel free to fold if 5-bet (though this means I have to call a hand down if the same situation happens too soon after this).

Your question is what to do when you don't 4-bet the flop and your turn bet gets re-raised. The pot is large -- 10 big bets. It will cost 2 big bets to call him down and the pot will contain 13 big bets when you call his (assumed) bet on the river. Your only chance to beat him is if you have the higher flush -- you have no redraws. How often do you figure he'd bluff? The answer's in the math and in how you read him. Wish I could give a better answer (I don't have one for my own similar questions)
Gino

[Jesse Richman]

Thanks for the response. A couple comments; house rules are a bet and 3 raises to cap, so had I 4-bet the flop it would have been capped. This was a big factor in smooth-calling the flop and popping the turn instead. Additionally, if my opponent had flopped a set, I wanted to cut down the odds on his full house draw.

I don't like the way you played this. Limping pre-flop with QJs is fine, but when you flop the flush, it's better to play it fast. You don't want to give another spade to the As or Ks. You should have 4 bet the flop. Plus there's a straight flush draw out there.

the BB is betting out on the turn b/c u just called his flopraise. You should cap the turn as well b/c it's unlikely he's made a higher flush, but more likely has a smaller flush.

[Jesse Richman]

Thanks for reponding. My take on it was the if the BB had the lone As (or a set), I'd rather punish them on the turn than pump the money in on the flop when they're getting decent odds on their draw.

[Dynasty]

I feel like one of my biggest leaks right now is an inability to lay down big hands

This is not a leak. If you never laid down a big hand such as a Queen-high flush with only 3 of a suit on the board, it will have hardly any impact on your winrate.

If you start laying down big hands, then you're developing a leak.

You played the hand very well- perhaps perfectly.

[Homer]

I would cap the turn. If he comes out betting again on the river, I call, and if he checks to me, I bet. There is no way I am laying this hand down. He could easily be coming at you with a smaller flush.

[deadbart]

I think you played the hand fine.

I would probably cap the flop. This often works out good for you even if you are behind, because most players will go for the checkraise on the turn with the nut flush. When you get checkraised you just call down, so you don't risk 3 bets on the turn.

Those who say you should cap the turn are crazy. Yes it is possible you are ahead, but a turn 3-bet on this board means business.

[Homer]

no tv and no beer make homer something something.....go crazy???? don't mind if i do.......

[Homer]

why you little!!!!

[afish]

There is no way you can lay this hand down. There is enough chance BB has a straight or a smaller flush to make this a hand you will take to the river every time.

[Jesse Richman]

Thanks for the comments. You're absolutely right about not laying this one down; my issue tends to be more with things like top pair, I suppose taking a queen-high flush to the river is kind of a no-brainer.