pocket Qs against the fish...

[RockPile]

I've hit a slump lately and have been questioning some of my play (as you always tend to when the downswing happens).. heres one of them.. flame away.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

[NAU_Player]

100% standard in my book

[RockPile]

[ QUOTE ]
100% standard in my book

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry for posting this.. thats what I thought as well.. but when the kid flips over A2 offsuit ..sigh.

[toss]

I think I'd bet that river.

[teajay]

Nice hand.

You can't worry about it. You got your money in when you had the best of it and that's all you have control over.

Cheers,
Travis

[UncleSalty]

Toss, do you bet/fold or bet/call the river there?

[toss]

bet/fold

[NAU_Player]

[ QUOTE ]
kid flips over A2 offsuit ..sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take solace in the fact that your superior play is more profitable than his in the long run /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Preflop you are a 71.4% favorite
Flop you are a 86.5% favorite
Turn you are a 88.6% favorite

Edit: oops.

[CAJ]

I think a bet on the river has negative returns:
1)I don't see him folding a hand that can beat Qs
2)There's only a few hands (if any)that are worth a call and lose to the Qs.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kid flips over A2 offsuit ..sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take solace in the fact that your superior play is more profitable than his in the long run /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Preflop you are a 71.4% favorite
Flop you are a 86.5% favorite
Turn you are a 88.6% favorite

There was nothing more you could have done to get him to fold, so don't worry about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah dude, you want him to call down, otherwise you make no money off him.

[NAU_Player]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah dude, you want him to call down, otherwise you make no money off him.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops... yeah.

[Evan]

Bet the river, dude. You will get called by and pair.

Value betting the river in non-painfully obvious situations can really add to your win rate more than most people realize.

[Bokonnon]

[ QUOTE ]
Value betting the river in non-painfully obvious situations can really add to your win rate more than most people realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still fairly new into my post-SSH career, but so far this is by far the most valuable tactic I've gotten from it.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river, dude. You will get called by and pair.

Value betting the river in non-painfully obvious situations can really add to your win rate more than most people realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, whereas your advice may be true in general, in this hand, against an unknown player, there are very few worse hands that would have raised UTG that will call here...unless you place the opponent almost exactly on a hand like 55 or KTs. Indeed, you do realize that Hero is losing to any pocket pair 66 and higher, as well as to any J or A?

[Zoelef]

I think the river Ace makes checking through a safer choice because the board didn't improve your hole cards and almost certainly improved the villain's (unless he has KQ*, given UTG raise). Logical?

Edit: I had a similar hand on TGC .50/1 yesterday:

I have 99 in MP2. Villain is UTG+1, no reads.
Villain calls, I raise, Villain calls.

Flop: J-Q-x rainbow
Villain checks, I bet, Villain calls.

Turn: Rag
Villain checks, I bet, Villain calls.

River: A (no 3-flush on board)
Villain checks, I check.
---
*JJ made straight on the turn, brain hurt bad

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river Ace makes checking through a safer choice because the board didn't improve your hole cards and almost certainly improved the villain's (unless he has KQ or JJ, given UTG raise). Logical?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero fell behind to JJ on the turn.

[DoctorDrew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river, dude. You will get called by and pair.

Value betting the river in non-painfully obvious situations can really add to your win rate more than most people realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, whereas your advice may be true in general, in this hand, against an unknown player, there are very few worse hands that would have raised UTG that will call here...unless you place the opponent almost exactly on a hand like 55 or KTs. Indeed, you do realize that Hero is losing to any pocket pair 66 and higher, as well as to any J or A?

[/ QUOTE ]

While normally I would be tempted to value bet. I agree that I would be happy to check this river through. What is he raising with PF that I can beat here? KQ? (Assuming that an unknown if somewhat 'logical')

Now if I knew he raises UTG with garbage and calls down with middle pair or worse, I might bet. Here, I am happy I don't have to pay to get to showdown.