"The Case for Israel" by Alan Dershowitz, any reviews?

[Zygote]

I've heard a lot about this book, but haven't heard a credible review yet. Anyways, I'm looking to buy and read it, but don't like doing things without recomendations. I'm hoping to get responses from representatives of both sides of the issue. Thanks to those who respond.

[Dead]

I've read it.

It's a book full of distortions.

Dershowitz basically dodges all of the atrocities committed by the Israelis, while focusing on the suicide bombings and other attacks from the Palestinian side.

If you want to read a great book about the Middle East situation, read Palestine, by Joe Sacco and Edward Said.

Great book, which presents a fairer perspective.

It also doesn't help that Dershowitz is completely biased in his Zionist view.

[Chris Alger]

I haven't read it but my sense is that the book was generally ignored for being riddled with distortions and stale propaganda. It created a minor bit of controversy in the left-wing press over Dershowitz's unattributed use of sources from Joan Peters 1984 book From Time Immemorial. For a good laugh, read the corresondence concerning it here (http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=4&ar=1).

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
It also doesn't help that Dershowitz is completely biased in his Zionist view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention that is was the Zionists who caused all the trouble for our fellow mainstream Jews in the 1930's, including helping the nzais find holocaust victims in order to get propaganda value for a "needed homeland".

Zionists are evil Hegelians all the way...

[Dead]

I'm Jewish. Stop with the Holocaust arguments.

[Gamblor]

If you want to read a great book about the Middle East situation, read Palestine, by Joe Sacco and Edward Said.

Fairer prespective? Are you sick?

Okay, so you reject a logical legal argument by a Harvard Law professor, but you accept unconditionally Edward Said, a Palestinian who has made a name for himself by travelling the US to accuse Americans of succumbing to the Jewish lobby because Ari Fleischer and Paul Wolfowitz are in the White house?

I obviously thought dershowitz's book was good.

If you read anything by Said you're subject to far worse propaganda than Dershowitz could ever fire your way.

Read the Dershowitz book. Please. Don't listen to the Algers of the world (who in a fantastic display of proportion-understanding call Israel a terrorist state). Also try anything by Michael Barnett or Charles Krauthammer.

[Zygote]

you're all over the place. i think you love annoucing you're jewish just to take different positions. you couldn't be more proud to be a jew who hates israel and you coudln't be me more offended anytime someone disses jews and all the while, you don't even believe in judaism.

[Dead]

I get mad when people make anti-semitic remarks, yes. Because anti-semitic remarks are wrong.

I guess I need to repeat this: CRITICIZING ISRAEL FOR ITS POLICIES AND CRITICIZING JEWS FOR BEING JEWISH ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Do you get it now? Read it again. Read it 100 times, if that's what it takes.

[Broken Glass Can]

Dead is wrong here.

It is OK to criticize actions of individuals
It is OK to criticize political groups
It is not OK to generalize to an entire race

Zionists can be criticized for their political positions.

Individual Jews can be criticized for their individual actions.

The fact that the criticisms earlier in this thread were bogus (and they were) does not change Dead's error in generalizing individuals and groups into the entire race.

If I were to say critizing Republicans was anti-American, I would be making the same false logical leap of generalization that Dead has made.

[Zygote]

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I get mad when people make anti-semitic remarks, yes. Because anti-semitic remarks are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why did you mention you were jewish? If you weren't jewish, would they still be wrong?


[ QUOTE ]
I guess I need to repeat this: CRITICIZING ISRAEL FOR ITS POLICIES AND CRITICIZING JEWS FOR BEING JEWISH ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Do you get it now? Read it again. Read it 100 times, if that's what it takes.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are the one who keeps connecting religion and politics. you tacitly imply in many of your posts that the fact that you are jewish and critizing israel gives you a higher authority. if this isn't true, why do you keep trying to use the fact that you're jewish to give crediblity to your anti-israel arguments? there has to be a reason why you keep mentioning it.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm Jewish. Stop with the Holocaust arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm Jewish too, schmuck. If you read anything besides the Jerusalem Post you might learn the real history of the holocaust.

The history you learned in public propaganda school is just crap.

The Zionists were promised a homeland by the British if they could con the US into fighting Germany. And did you know the Jewish homeland (in reality a colony of the Rothschild lineage aka Bauer (sp?) was possibly going to be someplace in New York and possibly Uganda?

[tek]

That's right. The Jewish religion has nothing to do with Zionist politics.

It's similar to hating all arabs just because a group of militant islamists trained and funded by the CIA cause terrorism.

The Zionists going back a couple hundred years have been evil people. And they DID sell out there fellow Jews in the 1930's to get their goal achieved. And they run Israel for the past 50+ years.

[zaxx19]

And they run Israel for the past 50+ years.

Wow...I think you said it wall right here buddy. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

BTW, how is Freahman yr going??

[Dead]

Tek, it's been established by many on here that you are a giant tool. Congratulations on being born Jewish. I guess you won the womb lottery as well.

But I won't bother with you.

[Dead]

Show me where I generalized an entire race?

I get it now. You can't show any proof, so all you do is keep trying to prove that I'm an anti-semite. It's not going to work, REPUBLICAN!

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
a Palestinian

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does that need to be bolded? Almost everyone who writes on this topic has a potential source of bias. Are all Palestinians automatically more biased? Alan Dershowitz is a Jew.

[Dead]

No, he's biased because he lived in Israel and all that. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Gamblor]

Why does that need to be bolded? Almost everyone who writes on this topic has a potential source of bias. Are all Palestinians automatically more biased?

Of course everyone has a potential bias - that was my point - that he's recommending said as a fair source.

Alan Dershowitz is a Jew.

So is Dead. If Dershowitz was a Likudnik, you might have a point there.

[Gamblor]

And did you know the Jewish homeland (in reality a colony of the Rothschild lineage aka Bauer (sp?) was possibly going to be someplace in New York and possibly Uganda?

If you read any of the original Zionist literature you'd know that Israel was always the ideal place, but Herzl et al had to settle for whatever shitty piece of land the kike-haters would throw their way to shut up their whining.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
So is Dead. If Dershowitz was a Likudnik, you might have a point there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty clear that Dershbag is incredibly biased against the Palestinians. I doubt that the ivory tower prick even regards them as human.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty clear that Dershbag is incredibly biased against the Palestinians. I doubt that the ivory tower prick even regards them as human.



[/ QUOTE ]

Really, and this is based on.....

Im guessing a hunch you have.

[Dead]

Just an image that I have of him. He condones torture as an acceptable tool for employment by the Us govt.

[Gamblor]

He condones torture as an acceptable tool for employment by the Us govt.

Spoken like an ignorant prick.

He has made two claims regarding torture:

1) Most nations do it anyway, so if they are going to do it it must be controlled strictly by the justice system - as in, only the justice system - which is by law separate from any legislative body of the US government - can issue warrants for torture. Similar to search warrants although I'd imagine infinitely more difficult to obtain.

Separation of the government and justice system is in fact a Jewish concept (originally preventing the King of Israel from declaring himself above the law of god and his judges) and it is the cornerstone of responsible government.

2) If we do allow it, and given the justice system's control of it, it should only be used in cases where American lives will be saved by any information obtained.

That is, if the FBI can prove to a court that al-Qaeda is planning a monster attack at the super bowl, and torturing mohammed atta will let us know how and when the attack will take place, the court can issue a torture warrant to the fbi for the purpose of preventing the attack.

you're so simple minded.

[Gamblor]

's pretty clear that Dershbag is incredibly biased against the Palestinians

The premise of A Case for Israel, is that the book is a logical, legal argument to the court of International opinion against the Palestinians' claims.

And it does a fairly good job.

That's like claiming the district attorney is biased against the defendant, dumbass.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that is was the Zionists who caused all the trouble for our fellow mainstream Jews in the 1930's, including helping the nzais find holocaust victims in order to get propaganda value for a "needed homeland".

Zionists are evil Hegelians all the way...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not understand what you are saying. I'm getting the sarcasm, and there's nothing wrong with sarcasm as far as I'm concerned, but what do you mean with your Holocaust remarks?

[andyfox]

How could a logical, legal argument be biased? Wouldn't a logical argument, by definition, be unbiased and let the facts lead where they may?

And shouldn't any logical argument refrain from name-calling?

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
Tek, it's been established by many on here that you are a giant tool. Congratulations on being born Jewish. I guess you won the womb lottery as well.

But I won't bother with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you correctly equate religion as a lottery. No religion is better than another. But for some reason people are willing to kill over religion.

I would also say that you are regarded as a tool also. A tool who has been criticozed for illogical posts /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that is was the Zionists who caused all the trouble for our fellow mainstream Jews in the 1930's, including helping the nzais find holocaust victims in order to get propaganda value for a "needed homeland".

Zionists are evil Hegelians all the way...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not understand what you are saying. I'm getting the sarcasm, and there's nothing wrong with sarcasm as far as I'm concerned, but what do you mean with your Holocaust remarks?

[/ QUOTE ]

What I am saying very simply is that Zionists are Jewish but do not represent the main body of Jews. Instead they cloak their politics in a shroud of religion.

They wanted a Jewish homeland and got it by helping the nazis kill six million of their fellow Jews and then crying out "OMG we need a homeland so this won't happen again!"

Theoretically it might be nice to have a Jewish homeland. However, there was not a homeland for thousands of years. To create the immediate need for a homeland by sacrificing your own people with a problem you helped create, is evil.

What problem did the Zionist create? The holocaust. A relatively small group of German Zionist Jews organized a boycott of Germany after WW1. The economic problems created hatred towards Jews and then Hitler rose to power and ran with that hatred. The Zionists gave the nazis names and address of Jews for the Concentration Camp round-ups.

[Gamblor]

I'm glad you correctly equate religion as a lottery

Tell that to Bob Dylan

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
And they run Israel for the past 50+ years.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is the same zionists who helped the nazis sacrifice their own brethren for a sandbox homeland are the very ones who have helped perpetuate the middle east violence for over fifty years.

Being Jewish and being zionist are two seperate things. I guess if you are zionist, might makes right. It worked in this country against the native Americans...

[Gamblor]

Wouldn't a logical argument, by definition, be unbiased and let the facts lead where they may?

the d.a. has to prove his point to an impartial judge somehow using a logical legal argument, biased or not.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
What problem did the Zionist create? The holocaust. A relatively small group of German Zionist Jews organized a boycott of Germany after WW1. The economic problems created hatred towards Jews and then Hitler rose to power and ran with that hatred. The Zionists gave the nazis names and address of Jews for the Concentration Camp round-ups

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW....

Wait so the "Zionists" "created" the holocaust...

Ok, things are just so much clearer since you began posting.

[ QUOTE ]
Being Jewish and being zionist are two seperate things. I guess if you are zionist, might makes right. It worked in this country against the native Americans...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the Professor Churchill moment....of course its hard to decipher what the hell parallel you are drawing here.

I suppose if White people were originally from North America, had ALWAYS existed in North America, and MOST Indians moved into North America after the whites built an economy from a malarial swamp....

You might have a point...

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you correctly equate religion as a lottery. No religion is better than another.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe in a particular religion? If you do, I don't see how you could say that.

[Gamblor]

you want to question israeli government policy, you want to suggest another policy will lead to the security and safety of israelis and jews worldwide, that's one thing.

I can't argue with opinion.

but misrepresenting facts, distorting history, arguing that israelis are all murderous thugs, and the government is perpetuating an apartheid regime, that is unacceptable to me.

yeah there's a lot of discrimination against arabs, but its nothing compared to the discrimination faced by non-arabs in all arab-majority countries. it's a jewish state. deal with it. canada's majority voted for government funding catholic private schools and not jewish private schools so i deal with it. there isn't much systematic discrimination worse that that in israel.

all in all though, israel isn't a bad place to live, jew or arab. it's easily the most comfortable place for arabs to live in the middle east.

[zaxx19]

UAE isnt too shabby.

[Gamblor]

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UAE isnt too shabby.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe if youre in the oil business