I think my HU play strategy is broken

[dfscott]

After my dismal HU performance in both the SnGs and the HU SnGs, I think I'm going about these all wrong. It could be due to variance, but it never hurts to examine your basic tenets.

Here's my HU strategy in a nutshell -- any and all advice is appreciated:

(This all assumes decent-sized blinds -- 100/200 or more)

my stack < t1500
push anything from the SB, call anything from the BB.

villain's stack < 1500
Push any A, any paint, any pair, any connector. Sometimes this can be any 2 cards if I've been on a cold run lately.

Call with any A, any paint, any pair (if his stack is low enough, can be any two).

any other chip distribution
In SB, push with:
A4+, K4+, any pair, any suited connector, any 2 broadway, Q9+, J9+.

In BB, call/push with:
A7+, KT+, any pair.

Of course, these are subject to situational changes (push more hands against someone who folds a lot, etc).

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
After my dismal HU performance in both the SnGs and the HU SnGs, I think I'm going about these all wrong. It could be due to variance, but it never hurts to examine your basic tenets.

Here's my HU strategy in a nutshell -- any and all advice is appreciated:

(This all assumes decent-sized blinds -- 100/200 or more)

my stack < t1500
push anything from the SB, call anything from the BB.


[/ QUOTE ]

Eh? You're going to call anything with 7.5BB no matter if your opponent is tight/loose, whatever? Terrible.

You also have the tools to know this is terrible at your very fingertips. Use it and get back to us with a revised strategy...

eastbay

[lorinda]

Exercise 1: Go to the ICM (no link provided to make it more adventurous). Assign first as 1.000 and other places as 0.00000
Find out what difference there is between CEV and $EV

Exercise 2: Go to pokerstove, or something similar (Sounds like you may have Eastbay's toolkit, which would be ideal) and find what hands you should call raises with.

These two are things that are calculable.

Lori

[Irieguy]

How can you post 2100+ times on this forum and then come up with this HU strategy?

If you read 1 post for every 100 that you write, your HU strategy would improve 50% at least.

Currently you are calling all-in from the BB with a 7BB stack with deuce-trey. I would recommend starting there as you look to modify your approach.

Now, enough bashing. To be helpful:

Select "read all user's posts" under Eastbay's bio. Everything you need to know is contained somewhere in something that Eastbay has written at sometime.

There is a non-exploitable strategy for HU play. It's just tic-tac-toe with some adjustments for opponents' tendencies.

Irieguy

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like you may have Eastbay's toolkit

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly is "Eastbay's toolkit"?

[eastbay]

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[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like you may have Eastbay's toolkit

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What exactly is "Eastbay's toolkit"?

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I have a classified ad on 2+2 (at the bottom, Sit and Go Power Tools).

eastbay

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]

You also have the tools to know this is terrible at your very fingertips. Use it and get back to us with a revised strategy...

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea, I never thought about taking this approach. I should be able to put together some typical situations and see what to do when.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you post 2100+ times on this forum and then come up with this HU strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have 2100 posts on this forum, it's more like 200. I've just figured out a way to inflate my post count so my posts seem like I know what I'm talking about.

And FWIW, I didn't come up with it, it's some advice I found searching through the archives. I think your opinion (and most others') is clear.

[ QUOTE ]

There is a non-exploitable strategy for HU play. It's just tic-tac-toe with some adjustments for opponents' tendencies.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've considered the "raise (pushing where appropriate) every hand strategy" and fold to any re-raises without a premium holding, but that hasn't worked too well either. I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.

I think I'll give eastbay/Lori's advice a shot.

Thanks.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

I've considered the "raise (pushing where appropriate) every hand strategy" and fold to any re-raises without a premium holding, but that hasn't worked too well either.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's pretty bad as well.

[ QUOTE ]

I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Who advocated that? "Gapless" strategy. Interesting.

eastbay

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I've considered the "raise (pushing where appropriate) every hand strategy" and fold to any re-raises without a premium holding, but that hasn't worked too well either.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's pretty bad as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

But wouldn't this mathematically guarantee me 45% (or do I misunderstand the math). I'll take 45% over my 25% that I have now.

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I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Who advocated that? "Gapless" strategy. Interesting.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll never tell...

[ForumBot]

Don't worry; help is on the Way /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

Your 'poor' results likely are a combination of variance, getting HU with fewer than average chips, and the fact that you may not be playing it very well. I have no idea what the proportion is in regards to whatever 'poor' results you have.

That being said.....if you're even moderately dilligent with the search function you will find that Eastbay and/or Dethgrind 'solved' the HU non-exploitable conundrum some time ago. That strategy at the very least is better than whatever you're doing right now.

The real trick to HU play is to tweak the non-exploitable strategy based on your opponents in order to maximize ROI...but still, it's hard to play worse than your opponents HU from what I see in the lower buyins.

Yugoslav

[SuitedSixes]

HU-realted thread jack:

Does anyone know how (or if it is possible) to setup a private HU tournament at Stars? It would be fun to get 4 or 8 of us together to play. Lemme know.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

But wouldn't this mathematically guarantee me 45% (or do I misunderstand the math). I'll take 45% over my 25% that I have now.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was afraid of that. It's not the first time this result has been misquoted, misunderstood, or misapplied badly. I don't really blame you - it's been kind of telephoned along, and lost a lot of important qualifiers in the process.

Only if blinds are 300/600, and stacks are even at 5k, and even then, it's still easily not the best strategy. The result simply shows how small the edges are in this situation against aggressive players. Change the blinds to 100/200, and you have a VERY different picture. The uber-maniac strategy is now suicide, as villian has 3x as long to wait to pick up a big hand to bury you with.

You have to understand all the factors: stacks/blinds/loose/tight/etc.

eastbay

[Phil Van Sexton]

You are playing 10/1s, right? At this level, the players are less aggressive and you often get headsup earlier (ie headsup at 100/200 as opposed to 200/400).

This being the case, you have a better chance to "outplay" your opponents than players in the 200s, or even the 30s. If you are are just pushing and calling pushes, you leave a lot up to the cards.

You can certainly do better than 25% with a "non-exploitable" strategy. However, you don't need to always follow the "non-exploitable" strategy because many players at the 10s are unable to exploit anything.

If your opponents will fold to small or min raises, then you should min raise them right off the table. I know this is exploitable, but many players at the 10s are unable to exploit this.

The key to heads-up is to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. If they have few or none, use a non-exploitable strategy. If they suck and the blinds are reasonable, feel free to exploit THEIR weaknesses.

[ilya]

It's definitely possible because one of the KotZ events is a HU tournament on Stars.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
You are playing 10/1s, right? At this level, the players are less aggressive and you often get headsup earlier (ie headsup at 100/200 as opposed to 200/400).

This being the case, you have a better chance to "outplay" your opponents than players in the 200s, or even the 30s. If you are are just pushing and calling pushes, you leave a lot up to the cards.

You can certainly do better than 25% with a "non-exploitable" strategy. However, you don't need to always follow the "non-exploitable" strategy because many players at the 10s are unable to exploit anything.

If your opponents will fold to small or min raises, then you should min raise them right off the table. I know this is exploitable, but many players at the 10s are unable to exploit this.

The key to heads-up is to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. If they have few or none, use a non-exploitable strategy. If they suck and the blinds are reasonable, feel free to exploit THEIR weaknesses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to amplify this. It's right on.

eastbay

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]


I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Who advocated that? "Gapless" strategy. Interesting.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll never tell...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this isn't exactly who told me, but I also found it here (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=978531& Forum=,,,,f22,,,,&Words=HU%20strategy&Searchpage=4 &Limit=25&Main=978531&Search=true&where=sub&Name=& daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post978531)

[dfscott]

In my forum digging, I also found this referring to situations where the blinds are 10% or more of the smallest stack:

[ QUOTE ]
Eastbay has said that at this blind level the best strategy and counter-strategy is to push all-in the top 60% of hands (roughly any pair/ace/king/queen, any two suited or connected cards higher than 8?), and call all-in the top 30% of hands (roughly any pair/ace, most big kings, any suited broadways?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Attributed to you, Eastbay -- do you agree?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
In my forum digging, I also found this referring to situations where the blinds are 10% or more of the smallest stack:

[ QUOTE ]
Eastbay has said that at this blind level the best strategy and counter-strategy is to push all-in the top 60% of hands (roughly any pair/ace/king/queen, any two suited or connected cards higher than 8?), and call all-in the top 30% of hands (roughly any pair/ace, most big kings, any suited broadways?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Attributed to you, Eastbay -- do you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

More or less. The calling standard is particularly sensitive to your read on what he's moving in with.

For tighter players you want to push more and call less as a general rule.

As a starting point, it certainly beats that calling with 32o stuff...

eastbay

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Who advocated that? "Gapless" strategy. Interesting.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll never tell...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this isn't exactly who told me, but I also found it here (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=978531& Forum=,,,,f22,,,,&Words=HU%20strategy&Searchpage=4 &Limit=25&Main=978531&Search=true&where=sub&Name=& daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post978531)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see that concept in any of those posts. I see more re-iteration of my HU simulation work.

eastbay

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I had another one (pushing with hands that are 50% or better to win against typical calling hands) but that one hasn't fared much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Who advocated that? "Gapless" strategy. Interesting.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll never tell...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this isn't exactly who told me, but I also found it here (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=978531& Forum=,,,,f22,,,,&Words=HU%20strategy&Searchpage=4 &Limit=25&Main=978531&Search=true&where=sub&Name=& daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&olderty pe=&bodyprev=#Post978531)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see that concept in any of those posts. I see more re-iteration of my HU simulation work.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to this post in particular:

[ QUOTE ]
If the BB is greater than 10% of either your or your opponents stack I move in with the top 50 or so percent of my hands and call with the top 20 to 30 percent of my hands.

Usually this is the only strategy you will need and it is very effective in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't really specify what "top 50 or so percent" means, but I assumed that it means versus calling hands. Maybe I misunderstood.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

They don't really specify what "top 50 or so percent" means, but I assumed that it means versus calling hands. Maybe I misunderstood.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite certain you did. It means half your hands, which is far different from hands which have 50% equity against a calling range.

Play with the calculator...

eastbay