Folding the SB after completing

[Yobz]

You are in the SB with some questionable suited hand, 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif or something like that. There is a poster in late position, 2 limpers, poster checks, you complete.

1st question: is that complete OK? I normally complete there, but if there is only 1 limper or 2 limpers, 1 of which is tight, then I fold. 3 or more I generally call..

Then:
BB raises, 2 limpers call, poster folds, what do you do?

[davelin]

Well your pot odds went from a whopping 1:9 to a staggering 1:8. Call.

[KaiShin]

Eh, no reason to fold for one more bet. See a flop.

[scotty34]

If BB is a reasonably observant player, he will probably start raising whenever he is in BB when he sees you complete and there aren't many others in the pot. You've already voluntarily put money in the pot. It doesn't matter what you have, between protecting your table image and defending what you've already put in, it's definetly worth the call.

[chopchoi]

I fold that before completing, and after as well. It isn't so much a matter of your pot odds having changed, as it is a matter of a raise from the BB showing a lot of strength, so it is unlikely that you will be able to push him out of the pot if you hit the flop.

For example, suppose the flop is all rags, like 8, 6, 3. I might bet this flop if it hadn't been raised pre-flop. Hell, if the button is the type who can't let it check down on the flop, I might even try a check-raise. But since it has been raised, you're just asking to get played back at if you bet. Also, if 2 hearts came you might be able to semi-bluff if it been unraised, but now you know that that won't work. Your hand is a lot weaker now than it was before the raise, so fold it up.

[DMBFan23]

it's a call. it's tough to say whether your implied odds have gone up or down, because you're investing more yet you will probably see more action postflop, so that counterbalances. your implied odds probably do go down here, but I still call for the pot odds, my skill postflop, and the super fun suckout factor.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold that before completing, and after as well. It isn't so much a matter of your pot odds having changed, as it is a matter of a raise from the BB showing a lot of strength, so it is unlikely that you will be able to push him out of the pot if you hit the flop.

For example, suppose the flop is all rags, like 8, 6, 3. I might bet this flop if it hadn't been raised pre-flop. Hell, if the button is the type who can't let it check down on the flop, I might even try a check-raise. But since it has been raised, you're just asking to get played back at if you bet. Also, if 2 hearts came you might be able to semi-bluff if it been unraised, but now you know that that won't work. Your hand is a lot weaker now than it was before the raise, so fold it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Not completing here with this many limpers/poster is probably a mistake. Maybe not a huge one but you can play this hand profitable for 0.5SB

2) After completing, folding here is probably another mistake. Maybe not a huge one, but I think can call and play this profitably.

3) With this hand, you're playing it mostly for trips, flush and two-pair value. You don't have to worry as much that you're playing against "big cards" because BB has shown strength...you hand had weak one-pair value anyway.

[Peter Harris]

all the posts are goot. I just want to give props to DMB for playing higher limits than me and his "dangeresque" avatar.

It's Over!!!
Pete Harris

[Evan]

The completion is okay as long as you won't overplay a flopped pair.

I would definitely not fold once I completed. That raise will end up having the effect of tying people to the pot. There's a section about this in HEPFAP that talks about raising hands like 78s on the button after a few limpers because they will give more action after the raise and you will actually have better implied odds when you make a strong hand.

[keikiwai]

I would call the raise w/o thinking, only because I already completed (which I think is fine, I would even complete w/ less limpers).

If someone reraises the BB raise and it is now 2 bets to me I would however fold.

I think the others have explained why seeing the 1 raise is good, but seeing 2 cold, eventhough the pf c/r may look weird, and may be someone trying to get overly tricky, is just too risky in my opinion, and folding to 2 bets even after you complete does not look weak IMO.

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Not completing here with this many limpers/poster is probably a mistake. Maybe not a huge one but you can play this hand profitable for 0.5SB

2) After completing, folding here is probably another mistake. Maybe not a huge one, but I think can call and play this profitably.

3) With this hand, you're playing it mostly for trips, flush and two-pair value. You don't have to worry as much that you're playing against "big cards" because BB has shown strength...you hand had weak one-pair value anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that the hand has very little 1 pair value. However, in an unraised pot, you have 2 ways to win. (1) make 2 pair or better, and win at showdown, or (2) get your opponents to fold. The pf raise dramitically reduces the chance of winning via (2), so I don't think that it is worth calling the bet.

Here's another way to look at it. If you were BB, would you call a raise from UTG here? If not, then there is no reason to call this raise.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Not completing here with this many limpers/poster is probably a mistake. Maybe not a huge one but you can play this hand profitable for 0.5SB

2) After completing, folding here is probably another mistake. Maybe not a huge one, but I think can call and play this profitably.

3) With this hand, you're playing it mostly for trips, flush and two-pair value. You don't have to worry as much that you're playing against "big cards" because BB has shown strength...you hand had weak one-pair value anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that the hand has very little 1 pair value. However, in an unraised pot, you have 2 ways to win. (1) make 2 pair or better, and win at showdown, or (2) get your opponents to fold. The pf raise dramitically reduces the chance of winning via (2), so I don't think that it is worth calling the bet.

Here's another way to look at it. If you were BB, would you call a raise from UTG here? If not, then there is no reason to call this raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very difficult to win via #2 without a hand worth showing down especially OOP. If I had suited cards in the BB and had the same pot odds, I'd definitely call.