Too tight?

[nimajneb]

I’m playing 5/10 HE at a nearby B&M. The table is filled with calling stations; typically 6 or 7 callers pre-flop, maybe one raise, with all hands going to showdown. In late position I’m dealt KK and a K is exposed on the deal. At this B&M the exposed card is used as the burn.

3 players call then a raise, two players call the 2 bets cold, then it’s my turn to act. I fold.

My rationale is that on tables like this the value of high pockets goes down significantly. One pair is rarely sufficient to win and my chances of drawing to a higher hand were reduced significantly. A raise to 3 bets wouldn’t likely have caused anyone invested in the pot to fold.

Is this too tight?

[spydog]

Yuck. Way too tight. KK/AA will hold up often enough for this to be an easy-easy 3-bet.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. Way too tight. KK/AA will hold up often enough for this to be an easy-easy 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even in a multiway pot, they'll hold up often enough to be protiable. I'm looking for anyone to fold.

[einbert]

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

766,858 games 59.391 secs 12,912 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 36.3424 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { KK }
Hand 2: 03.5042 % [ 00.03 00.01 ] { Kc3s }
Hand 3: 12.0295 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 4: 12.0683 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 5: 12.0520 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 6: 12.0486 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 7: 11.9550 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { random }</pre><hr />

Bad fold, next time 3-bet that [censored].

When they play too loose
Playing more hands is the key
To more fun and dough

[ckessel]

Good lord, if you're not willing to go to 3 bets with KK preflop, what will you 3-bet with? The burnt K is bad, but you're not generally looking for a set with KK anyway, a set is just gravy.

With hands like KK you pray to see everyone putting multiple bets in preflop. Yea, you win less often, but that's made up for a couple times over by the size of the pots you do win.

[crunchy1]

I'm missing the reason why K3 is included as one person's hand? If you're accounting for the burned K I don't think that's the correct way to do it?


Advice to OP: Slap the deck out of the dealer's hand on to the table so that they have to reshuffle that exposed K back in the deck. This will increase your odds of winning. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

The OP is right
To discount his hand's value
But folding is nuts

[nimajneb]

Thanks everyone. I see the error of my ways. And the pokerstove is neat too. Thanks.

I know the long run is everything but just in case you are interested the hand played out:

Flop: three small cards, ten high w/ two hearts. (The Kh was the burn)

Turn: K

River: Another heart

Ah6h won the pot. He was between the raiser and I and no combination of betting/raising would've gotten him out.

Thanks again.

[Jibbs]

The problem with haiku
is that you just get started
and then you have to

[afk]

raiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iise

[nimajneb]

Pokerstove actually has a dead card function. I've played around with it a bit more and added a decent hand for the raiser (he was somewhat solid) as well as a couple of other hands:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

404,152 games 49.930 secs 8,094 games/sec

Board:
Dead: Kh

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 26.6882 % [ 00.27 00.00 ] { KdKc }
Hand 2: 15.3351 % [ 00.15 00.00 ] { AcQc }
Hand 3: 12.6520 % [ 00.12 00.00 ] { Ah6h }
Hand 4: 19.8441 % [ 00.19 00.00 ] { 8s7s }
Hand 5: 10.1428 % [ 00.10 00.00 ] { JcTd }
Hand 6: 07.6708 % [ 00.07 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 7: 07.6669 % [ 00.07 00.01 ] { random }

The results aren't quite as glaring but my play was still obviously a mistake.