I think ive lost wot little skill i had, How would you play this hand?

[chrisjentys]

Ok this hand was on £0.5/£1 PL game;

Seat 1: gammeland (£36 in chips)
Seat 2: dazzer1 (£165 in chips)
Seat 3: imgood (£128.09 in chips)
Seat 4: Amcoff001 (£59.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Chr180337(ME) (£78.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Camelman (£58.25 in chips)

5 of us in a family pot I was in with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif from the BB.
Flop comes 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks to me I bet the pot (£5)
Everyone folds but Camelman and imgood.
3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif falls on the turn
I bet (£9) , Camelan calls and imgood folds.
A /images/graemlins/heart.gif falls on the river I bet £11 he re-raises all in, I have him covered.

What would you do?

[etgryphon]

check-fold the flop. There is no reason to play this...

-Gryph

[JonLines]

You wouldn't even bet the flop? Can you explain your reasoning?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
check-fold the flop. There is no reason to play this...

-Gryph

[/ QUOTE ]
OK this is obviously a not funny joke, right? In any case, check/call the river to induce a bluff from his likely busted draw. It can also save you some bucks when you are behind but will call his raise, since this is PL.

[JonLines]

What do you think of the turn bet, £9 into a £20 pot? I think with 2 players behind you, the turn was a very nice, non-scary card, but there are many scary rivers. With 4 limpers there is the obvious flush draw, possible straight draw with 9T, or even TPTK. I would probably bet pot or closer to it on turn, £15-20, gives a flush or straight draw bad odds, and might scare off the limpers.

Anyone agree?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yes, betting more on the turn is a good idea. And while we're at it, to answer the initial question, I call this river raise given the hand as played. I think TPTK or better would raise the flop.

[etgryphon]

TheWorstPlayer:

Sorry not an unfunny joke...Perhaps a funny mistake? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Here is my reasoning here...

With no reads on the table. i.e. chasers and such.

I think that it is reasonable to assume at least an A or overcards are out there to play. Fine, you flop a midpair with the worst kicker. You are second to act on a light drawing str8 and a drawing flush board. People love to limp with a J high in their hands. I would not make a bet unless I was at least one off the table button. Maybe that is because I am weak-tight, but I don't like to play strong on a drawing flop until I have position. I think an argument can be made for showing strength up front, but come on are people really paying attention at this level you may get one of them to fold who is paying attention. Not all of them will. So if you get a call I'm seeing 8 flush cards, 6 straight cards, ~3 kings and ~3 Aces for 20 cards in the deck that can help a caller. That's not to say that I still wouldn't play from a later position, but I would like to have more information when I bet and would not like to be the first to act on the turn when that one of those cards come. Now my position in playing in this situation will slide if the criteria where to change, ie better kicker, good read on the table.

This could all be completely wrong, but when the Ace comes at the end you don't know whether you are snapping off a bluff or not because of your position and now you have made a situation where you could still have the best hand and you are just begging the busted draw from late position not to bluff at you. Any bet at the end look like you are protecting your paired Jack or trying to make a move on the flop. I'll bet that they won't know that you have the 8 but does that really matter.

Thats my reasoning. Please tell me where it is flawed, I can believe that it is. Sounds like I'm leaving a whole lot of money on the table. Never a good idea.

-Gryph

[Muisyle]

That's an awful lot of in depth analysis for not noticing that hero flopped two pair.

[JonLines]

[ QUOTE ]
TheWorstPlayer:

Fine, you flop a midpair with the worst kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats where you are flawed... he flopped bottom 2 pair.

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, betting more on the turn is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed...If you are going to take the betting line. Then I thinkyou have to bet here.

[ QUOTE ]


And while we're at it, to answer the initial question, I call this river raise given the hand as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cant see someone playing Ax /images/graemlins/spade.gif this way? I guess you can get people who play 77-22 here. Man, you got balls...Plays like that never seem to work for me.

[ QUOTE ]
I think TPTK or better would raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed...But, I don't think that you are up against TPTK here by a long shot.

-Gryph

[etgryphon]

Huh... what can I say...
http://www.fadetoblack.com/pics/moron.jpg

-Gryph

[JonLines]

So.... now you know what he had, what would you do? lol /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[etgryphon]

Listen to WorstPlayer...

Seriously, bet turn, call the river without a thought...

-Gryph

[3N1GM4]

hehe, good to see people on here are only human after all...

[sawseech]

meh he has to have AJ

[chrisjentys]

Thanks for the response guys. Looking back over whats been said I feel I let him see the river cheaply and if he had missed his draw there was no point betting on the river.
Had I not bet the river it would've been much easier to consider laying the hand down.

As it turns out he had A J and he took alot ok my dosh.

Hopefully this lesson will stick,

Thanks,

Chris.