Was I right to slow down here?

[nukemar25]

I had only been at the table for about twenty minutes but it seemed to be a typical loose passive 2/4 table with the exception of the BB who I had already figured out was a LAG. The others in the hand seemed to be loose passive so far.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)
converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (14 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[Chris Dow]

Check raise the turn.

[mantasm]

[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? what is the dude limping preflop, raising a bet then capping a check/3bet with that the hero beats? A call down is fine here, but I think you're behind. If you check raise the turn you'll get 3bet. I'd lead the flop.

[Chris Dow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? what is the dude limping preflop, raising a bet then capping a check/3bet with that the hero beats? A call down is fine here, but I think you're behind. If you check raise the turn you'll get 3bet. I'd lead the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down is ridiculous here. Put in the extra bet to try to knock out one player. If you get 3 bet on the turn your hand has turned to crap imo.

[mantasm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? what is the dude limping preflop, raising a bet then capping a check/3bet with that the hero beats? A call down is fine here, but I think you're behind. If you check raise the turn you'll get 3bet. I'd lead the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call down is ridiculous here. Put in the extra bet to try to knock out one player. If you get 3 bet on the turn your hand has turned to crap imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think CO has? Like A4? He raised and capped the flop. You're probably beat but it's worth the call down.

[Chris Dow]

[ QUOTE ]
You're probably beat but it's worth the call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope.

[mantasm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're probably beat but it's worth the call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[Chris Dow]

I want to be sure I'm beat and if I'm not I want to protect my hand. If I'm sure I'm beat I don't want to call down, I want to fold.

[mantasm]

The only guy you're protecting your marginal hand from is the BB, an aggressive player who you probably would have heard from by now if he were a threat. You can call a bet on both streets and see a showdown for the same price, and getting like 8:1 to call both streets it seems like a good deal.

What range of hands do you think the cutoff (passive) might have?

[Chris Dow]

If you just want to say that CO = Passive = He can't have less than 2 pair here then you should fold. But please, save time, say it, and realize you should fold. I think my hand can still be good, so I'm not going to go into passive call call mode on the turn. There isn't value to that line.

[mantasm]

[ QUOTE ]
If you just want to say that CO = Passive = He can't have less than 2 pair here then you should fold. But please, save time, say it, and realize you should fold. I think my hand can still be good, so I'm not going to go into passive call call mode on the turn. There isn't value to that line.

[/ QUOTE ]

The value is you get to showdown a hand in a big pot you think is behind but not 89% sure. Does that not make sense? I'm going to bed. xoxo

[Chris Dow]

Nah, I'm being to hard on you. I dislike giving up and calling down. I understand why you're suggesting it. I'm thinking a higher ev line is to find out for sure you're behind or protect your hand on this very dangerous board.

[pshabi]

He could be playing a flush draw or a weak ace, but I'd bet on flush draw. I'm check/raising the turn as well.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? what is the dude limping preflop, raising a bet then capping a check/3bet with that the hero beats? A call down is fine here, but I think you're behind. If you check raise the turn you'll get 3bet. I'd lead the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ErrantNight]

what hands can you fold in this large pot on this very dangerous board, and how do you hope to accomplish this feat?

[HajiShirazu]

Since flush draw is a likely hand here given that you have two of the the medium pair cards so a set is unlikely, AA is unlikely, and not everybody plays A7/A6 type hands unless they are suited, plus he could easily just have a big ace, I would bet the turn because I don't want anybody taking a free card and two pair has plenty of value here, and call down if raised.

[Chris Dow]

If I can get only the BB to fold to the CR that's ok with me, knocks the field down by 1. Also if the BB calls with odds to call I at least want to charge him while ahead. Going into the turn I am not convinced I'm behind and therefore on the turn I don't want to give up on protecting my hand/extracting equity. Thus, since hero checked the turn, had I been hero I would have at least been doing so to CR.

[That guy]

you have to bet a non-spade on the turn and call a raise. I like this better than check-raising here. Your hand beats most Aces but now loses to A6 A7 A8 87 + set. you have to recognize that the 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif is a decent card for your hand. if it just made someone a gutshot or just made 87 a 2-pair then you will be hearing from that player soon with a raise.

The raiser sees a board with texture and could simply be protecting a big ace when he raises and re-raises the flop. But when/if he raises the turn, its time to slow down.

on the turn, your hand is unlikely to improve and you need to knock out opponents. if you had bet the turn and it had come backs to you 3 bets, now you have good information and I would strongly consider folding. if it comes back 1 more bet but the pot is big, you have to call.

when the spade hits the river, check-calling 1 bet is fine simply due to pot size and the fact you do beat any big ace.
I would fold if it comes back for 2 bets in this multiway pot.