JJ in a tough spot [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Donating

03-30-2005, 04:20 AM

No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 04:23 AM

Auto push. Tipping my hat to AA-QQ.

Pep.

gasgod

03-30-2005, 04:33 AM

I am but a beginner, but I am starting to understand that you cannot let yourself get into a chasing game. If you call, there are two more streets onto which you can bleed chips. IMHO, you gotta either take the lead or get outta Dodge.

Could be wrong, but I'm outta here. It's a helluva waste of a good PP, but I hate check/calling, and I can't see my way clear to reraising.

GG

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 04:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent dependent. Your stack here is still huge and to the tightest rocks out there with a similar or larger stack I might actually fold this to the pot bet. Mini-raise could be trouble. I'd say 95% of the time I'd get broke if they had an overpair here and the other 5% I wouldn't because of folding. I'd say nh though if they had QQ-AA and kick myself for not listening to my gut knowing it was someone I should watch out for.

P.S. I could already feel myself getting flamed for this weak/tight advice.

gasgod

03-30-2005, 04:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent dependent. Your stack here is still huge and to the tightest rocks out there with a similar or larger stack I might actually fold this to the pot bet. Mini-raise could be trouble. I'd say 95% of the time I'd get broke if they had an overpair here and the other 5% I wouldn't because of folding. I'd say nh though if they had QQ-AA and kick myself for not listening to my gut knowing it was someone I should watch out for.

P.S. I could already feel myself getting flamed for this weak/tight advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I didn't consider pushing, but it's clearly an alternative. BTW, I also fear TT or even 77 in addition to AA-QQ.

If I push, what hands am I hoping to be up against?

GG

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 05:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent dependent. Your stack here is still huge and to the tightest rocks out there with a similar or larger stack I might actually fold this to the pot bet. Mini-raise could be trouble. I'd say 95% of the time I'd get broke if they had an overpair here and the other 5% I wouldn't because of folding. I'd say nh though if they had QQ-AA and kick myself for not listening to my gut knowing it was someone I should watch out for.

P.S. I could already feel myself getting flamed for this weak/tight advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I didn't consider pushing, but it's clearly an alternative. BTW, I also fear TT or even 77 in addition to AA-QQ.

If I push, what hands am I hoping to be up against?

GG

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get a call? Mostly a hand that will knock you out unless you get lucky. There's a chance they'd have AT but not likely unless they were just lucky accumulating those chips up until now.

gasgod

03-30-2005, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent dependent. Your stack here is still huge and to the tightest rocks out there with a similar or larger stack I might actually fold this to the pot bet. Mini-raise could be trouble. I'd say 95% of the time I'd get broke if they had an overpair here and the other 5% I wouldn't because of folding. I'd say nh though if they had QQ-AA and kick myself for not listening to my gut knowing it was someone I should watch out for.

P.S. I could already feel myself getting flamed for this weak/tight advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I didn't consider pushing, but it's clearly an alternative. BTW, I also fear TT or even 77 in addition to AA-QQ.

If I push, what hands am I hoping to be up against?

GG

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get a call? Mostly a hand that will knock you out unless you get lucky. There's a chance they'd have AT but not likely unless they were just lucky accumulating those chips up until now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Pushing can win a small pot or lose a big one. I'll stand by my original opinion that you need to dump this hand. Even though it could be best, it has no future.

GG

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 05:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No reads on the raiser. What is your play here and why? Maybe this is simple, but I'm starting to re-evaluate some of my play when I have a decent stack relative to the blinds.

Party Poker $50+5 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1065)
SB (t1255)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t810)
MP2 (t2740)
Hero (t1740)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, 3 folds.

Flop: (t550) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t500, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Opponent dependent. Your stack here is still huge and to the tightest rocks out there with a similar or larger stack I might actually fold this to the pot bet. Mini-raise could be trouble. I'd say 95% of the time I'd get broke if they had an overpair here and the other 5% I wouldn't because of folding. I'd say nh though if they had QQ-AA and kick myself for not listening to my gut knowing it was someone I should watch out for.

P.S. I could already feel myself getting flamed for this weak/tight advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I didn't consider pushing, but it's clearly an alternative. BTW, I also fear TT or even 77 in addition to AA-QQ.

If I push, what hands am I hoping to be up against?

GG

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get a call? Mostly a hand that will knock you out unless you get lucky. There's a chance they'd have AT but not likely unless they were just lucky accumulating those chips up until now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Pushing can win a small pot or lose a big one. I'll stand by my original opinion that you need to dump this hand. Even though it could be best, it has no future.

GG

[/ QUOTE ]

Whole reason why I said opponent dependent. /images/graemlins/wink.gif If it's a nit I'm willing to push, if it's a dude with a VPIP of 12% and a raise of 3% I'll know to not be an idiot. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif Plus pushing on the flop isn't necessarily a "small" pot since with the flop bet it's 1050.

Donating

03-30-2005, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if it's a dude with a VPIP of 12% and a raise of 3% I'll know to not be an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you getting VPIP and PFR from PT for tournament play? I know it provides the data, but I didn't think you could auto-import this for tournaments. Are you doing it manually?

Also, my question boils down to sans any reads - how often are you laying this hand down simply because you (1) know you are playing for your tournament (2) are either way ahead or way behind and (3) you are still in great shape if you fold...

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 05:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if it's a dude with a VPIP of 12% and a raise of 3% I'll know to not be an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you getting VPIP and PFR from PT for tournament play? I know it provides the data, but I didn't think you could auto-import this for tournaments. Are you doing it manually?

Also, my question boils down to sans any reads - how often are you laying this hand down simply because you (1) know you are playing for your tournament (2) are either way ahead or way behind and (3) you are still in great shape if you fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard playerview or something does this for PT but then again I don't use PT very often. I won't lay the hand down unless I'm almost sure I'm beat. Again, this is based on what I might have seen from opponent in the past few hands (or SNG's for that matter).

There's only what about 80 hands or so in an average SNG and you won't have many hands where you'll see yourself as a huge favorite with the opponent drawing dead so this is probably one of those hands you'll have to make a tough decision. If you bust, it happens, open another one up and learn from it.

P.S. This is all my opinion so take it with a grain of salt as always.

whynot?

03-30-2005, 10:42 AM

so my thought process would be

- based on the pfr raise he didnt two pair up - very low chance he's raising with Tx
- that tells me he has tripped up, has an overpair, caught top pair, or is bluffing with second or third pair
- i dont think he's pfr indicates an overpair
- so, I'd push thinking he has AT or maybe KT and trying to steal. If he did trip up then i hit a hazard and move on to the next table