AK hand from Empire 15K

[Nottom]

A little background. 16 or so left, tourney paid 50 with no noticable jumps until the final table. Avg stack is about 25K.

UTG has been limping a lot, and calling a bit. I've raised him off his hand a couple times in the past few orbits, and have raised about 3 times this particular orbit taking the blinds (and his limp) each time.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1500 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t47775)
MP2 (t4388)
CO (t18260)
Button (t18731)
SB (t31576)
BB (t57366)
UTG (t42686)
UTG+1 (t4199)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t1500, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t7000</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG Pushes All-in.

Hero's action???

[skoal2k4]

hard to tell if you put him on tilt or if he went for the ol' limp/re-raise with AA

[pokerraja]

Your too deep stacked to call this. Easy fold. I think he most likely has a mid PP.

[LethalRose]

[ QUOTE ]
Your too deep stacked to call this. Easy fold. I think he most likely has a mid PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

when the blinds go up he'll have 20BB, thats not deepstacked.

I call

[Nottom]

I folded. I didn't like it, becasue I figured he was just making a play at the pot. I figured his most likely hand was a mid PP but a higher than man be expected chance of a big pair.

I ended up making the final table in the middle of the pack, and busted out 8th after pushing with TT on a mono-tone 689 board where I held the T and ran in to a flopped set. Winning this hand would have obviously been huge, since it would have vaulted me into the chip lead with all the perks that go with that position, so I really wonder how this hand would have turned out.

[pokerraja]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your too deep stacked to call this. Easy fold. I think he most likely has a mid PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

when the blinds go up he'll have 20BB, thats not deepstacked.

I call

[/ QUOTE ]

Deep stack probably wasnt the best wordage. But he is by no means short. He's 2nd at this table. He can fold and still easily make the final table in good enough shape. So why risk everything on AK here?

[LethalRose]

Im guessing from the stack sizes and avg stack there's about 450K in chips total in play.

If he calls this and wins, he will have nearly 100K in chips, which is 1/4 the total chips in play. I find when i make the final table with this many chips i make at least second, you can sit back and wait for 3-4 smaller stacks to battle it out.

Now lets say theres 4 left and Im delt AK, i may not take this same chance if im the chipleader. The jump from 4th to 3rd might be significant enough that i can lay it down and wait for a better spot.

Im very new to MTT's, but i definately gamble it up and take coinflips before making the final table. You'll win a lot more when you do get the huge stack.

[logogg]

Easy fold here. Given the situation as you described it, I would say it's a coin toss at best. I don't mind limping and folding to a raise pre-flop a few times (like UTG did here) because it sets me up for exactly this move. Don't know who did it to you, but if it's ever me that does it, I'm holding a hand that dominates AK.

There's no reason to push as a slight (or perhaps massive) underdog unless:

a) You're short-stacked ... which you are clearly not

b) You are playing with talent that is far superior, in which case you have to gamble to win ... I don't know if this was the case, but there's a lot of bad players that make it this far in a 15K. You can, and in fact did, make it to the final table and put your chips in a better situation. For some reason, when the money starts to ramp up significantly at the final table, people push ridiculous hands. 20x BB allows you to be patient enough to wait for a better situation.

Your move, IMHO, was correct and an easy decision.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't know who did it to you, but if it's ever me that does it, I'm holding a hand that dominates AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the main reason I questioned this at all was becasue the raise is sooooo big. It makes it way to easy for me to get away form a hand like AK or JJ or maybe even QQ. If he actually has AA this seems like a terrible play. It makes a bit more sense with KK as you can then force out A-high hands, but in reality it doesn't make much sense to play a true monster like this.

Of course I say this knowing that the last 2 way over-potsized bets I've called preflop (both with KK) were both AA. I still think they were both awful raises since they basically restrict me to calling with hands that are likely getting all-in against AA preflop anyway.

[logogg]

Agreed, but that logic assumes that all players go through the same thought process that you did. A bet that big is called more often than you might think, even that late in a tournament (some times, even moreso when it is that late in a tournament). I've been very happy to see people call with medium pair, even with garbage like AT there.

People call because they think the overbet represents a hand that needs to be protected, and hence one they can beat, or just because pride won't let them fold.

[schwza]

i'd say you'd have a tough decision if not for the background on this guy. given that you've stolen his limps a ton, there's a good chance he'll play back light. if you win this hand you'll have a monster stack, and i think there's a pretty decent chance villain is going to do this with some non-pair hand. i'd call.