new to no limit/pot limit

[wrto4556]

Im new to No limit and pot limit (not just the forum). Tonight's session told me I have a lot of work to do.

$1/2 PL live.

UTG is tight/aggressive. He loosens up a little against me because I loosen up against him. Button reminds me of a young Mike Caro without the brain. He's there to have fun.

I get delt the 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the SB. UTG(tighty) limps, everyone folds to the button (caro) who limps, I complete, and the BB checks. ($8 pot)

The flop comes 3 /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet $4

BB and UTG fold, button calls.

The turn is the 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif which gives me a gut shot along with my pair and flush draw.

I bet $8

Button calls.

river is a blank and it's checked through.

You like?

EDIT: I have $80, button has $120.

[Raydain]

If it was me I would of put in a small bet on the river in case he missed his draw as well

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
If it was me I would of put in a small bet on the river in case he missed his draw as well

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean a 1/4 pot bet. But isn't that a case of "only a better hand will call". My pair of threes should be good against a busted draw.
I was planning on Check/folding the river UI.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it was me I would of put in a small bet on the river in case he missed his draw as well

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I assume you mean a 1/4 pot bet. But isn't that a case of "only a better hand will call". My pair of threes should be good against a busted draw.
I was planning on Check/folding the river UI.

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Yeah, I like check-calling a small bet much better then betting. Your 3s should beat any busted draw.


As for the play of the hand, I actually would fold 73h from the SB. I dont like pawning off preflop advice, but a. it's a (bad) drawing hand -> b. you're out of position -> c. you said button is there to have fun, i'm intrepreting this loosely, but I think that means he'll splash around the most. (bet light) in that case you ALSO have the worst relative position, as you'll have to call his bets before others act.

Also, stack sizes are important. If you're VERY shortstacked I like checkraising the flop. Normal stacks + I like leading out, and half pot seems ok.

Turn vs this player who you say is there to have fun you could even have best hand w/ pair of 3s, but betting and getting raised would sicken me as you have so many outs. Not sure if I like betting again, check-calling, or check-raising the best. Depends on stacks.

Edit: Just saw stacks at bottom. With 40bbs I definately muck this.

As for turn play, you have ~75, he has you covered, and there is 16 in pot, I like checking.

I need to think if c/r or c/c is best. I just dont like betting 8 here because if he raises pot then it's 32 more back to you, so thats putting in 32 of 67, or half your stack, limiting implied odds greatly. But you cant really fold with that many outs. So it's like putting most of your money in as a ~2:1 dog (vs suspected higher pair) wwith no fold equity, little implied odds, and no bluff equity if you miss.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn vs this player who you say is there to have fun you could even have best hand w/ pair of 3s, but betting and getting raised would sicken me as you have so many outs. Not sure if I like betting again, check-calling, or check-raising the best. Depends on stacks.

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The turn is what I really wanted to talk about. I guess I should have put that in my OP. The button has $120 and I have $80, so he has me covered by a little.

The C/r line is interesting but I don't think he will fold enough. Sure, I have much outs, but I don't think he's folding 1 in 100. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I see him bluff everyonce in a while and it's a mini bet. Maybe I could C/r when he mini bets and smooth call when he 1/2 pots it.
/shrug

Why would you say C/r the turn?

[BobboFitos]

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[ QUOTE ]
Turn vs this player who you say is there to have fun you could even have best hand w/ pair of 3s, but betting and getting raised would sicken me as you have so many outs. Not sure if I like betting again, check-calling, or check-raising the best. Depends on stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn is what I really wanted to talk about. I guess I should have put that in my OP. The button has $120 and I have $80, so he has me covered by a little.

The C/r line is interesting but I don't think he will fold enough. Sure, I have much outs, but I don't think he's folding 1 in 100. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I see him bluff everyonce in a while and it's a mini bet. Maybe I could C/r when he mini bets and smooth call when he 1/2 pots it.
/shrug

Why would you say C/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he doesn't fold ever then check-call him.

I check-call flop check-raise the turn a lot with a set. I also do it alot with weird semibluffs. A check-call flop check-raise turn is normally a huge display of strength. This allows you alot of folding equity. if thats not the case, there is no reason to put more money into the pot when you (think) you have the worst hand (ie no folding equity is generated, because he calls w/ any pair)

[akishore]

hey wrto,

a couple of points that others have touched on that i want to expand on:

1. completing SB with any two suited is fine here, since you're getting 7:1 odds. in general, the deeper the stacks, the more inclined you can be to limp suited gappers (up to four-gappers, e.g. 73s), but i generally only loosen up this much when the stacks are 100xbb or more. here, they were only 40xbb, so for future reference, don't play too many speculative hands for 1xbb, especially out of position. since you were only completing the SB here, it was fine.

2. leading the flop is fine, i think. the pot is small, so you don't have to worry too much about being pot-raised. no one showed aggression pre-flop, so you don't want it to get checked through and you miss out on a value bet when you have good equity. i REALLY like your half-pot bet here... small enough for value, big enough to show strength (ESPECIALLY if that's your consistent flop bet... between 1/2 pot to 2/3 pot... a $5 bet here would have been fine as well), and most importantly, small enough to maintain the pot size for your draw. the key thing about PL is pot manipulation, and this bet does it well. you keep it small enough to give you some freedom on the turn and small enough to give you good implied odds on later streets. i wouldn't check-call here or even check-raise... i would lead out exactly like you did.

3. don't lead the turn, even though your draw improved. if all your outs are clean, you have 9 hearts, 5 two-pair/trip cards (assuming button doesn't have a four, which is a reasonable assumption) and 3 gutshot cards, for a total of 17 outs. assuming that your pair of 3's isn't good (another reasonable assumption unless he is on a draw himself), you will only win at showdown about 35% now, so you don't want to really bet for value. in NL, your bet is great because aggression is key in NL, and i like extending my display of strength through the turn, but pot manipulation takes precedence in PL. as another poster said, you DON'T want to risk being raised the pot. that would be too much of your stack (implied odds drastically decrease) and your pot odds would be break-even now. if you check, you might still be bet the pot, but your implied odds will still be decent, allowing you to call. if you check and villian makes a small lead, a check-raise is fine if you think he might fold (e.g. you have a read on him that says his weak bets are weak bluff attempts), but since you mention that he wouldn't fold, just call. regardless, if he bets 1/2 pot or more, call of course. so i would check the turn. note that your play was fine if it was NL. in fact, in NL, i would bet more than 1/2 the pot on both the flop and the turn... probably closer to 2/3 or 3/4 on both streets (e.g. if the pot was still $16 here, i would probably bet around $12). in PL, check the turn.

hope this helps,
aseem