Worst leak among winning SNGer's? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 02:18 AM

I'm wondering what most of you feel is the single worst leak among winning SNG players? From my experience, it's taking TPTK/GK too far when facing agression in levels 1, 2 and 3. It meets all the criteria of a major leak and I constantly see otherwise very solid players putting themselves in awkward situations early with these hands. I'm anxious to hear others thoughts.

Pep.

microbet

03-30-2005, 02:25 AM

I know it is not what you mean, but I would expect the answer is: T I L T

eastbay

03-30-2005, 02:33 AM

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I know it is not what you mean, but I would expect the answer is: T I L T

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure this is what I mean. TILT is a prefectly reasonable leak.

The Yugoslavian

03-30-2005, 02:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I know it is not what you mean, but I would expect the answer is: T I L T

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur....just think of what Dali's ROI would be if he never got upset, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Although in most cases I'd imagine the tilt we're really talking about here is the difference between A and B or C game rather than A game and what most ppl view as Tilt game.

Yugoslav

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering what most of you feel is the single worst leak among winning SNG players? From my experience, it's taking TPTK/GK too far when facing agression in levels 1, 2 and 3. It meets all the criteria of a major leak and I constantly see otherwise very solid players putting themselves in awkward situations early with these hands. I'm anxious to hear others thoughts.

Pep.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is really a leak, I'm probably guilty of it. I'm just not so sure it is. It's not infrequently that I'll get myself in a spot where I hate calling down or getting called with TPTK only to be somewhat shocked at the crap I get shown. Yes, sometimes you get shown a set or A-rag 2-pair, but I'm not sure this outweighs the times your TPTK is good.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

I think our difference of opinion here might be attributed to our levels of play east. I'm at the 11's currently, and it's not at all uncommon to be shown flush and straight draws (that didn't have odds to call) that make it, cobbled togther two pairs with J8o, etc. This is especially true in levels 1-3 where the weaker players have yet to be snapped off (for playing things like J8o).

Pep.

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 02:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know it is not what you mean, but I would expect the answer is: T I L T

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur....just think of what Dali's ROI would be if he never got upset, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Although in most cases I'd imagine the tilt we're really talking about here is the difference between A and B or C game rather than A game and what most ppl view as Tilt game.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to adamently disagree that TILT is even in the top 5 for winning players until Yogo made this great observation and it's one I've never given much thought to. Tilt is probably a different animal for winning players than losing players. Winners have encountered it so many times, they have more likey found ways to minimize it's affects. I don't know, but it's something to consider.

lastchance

03-30-2005, 02:48 AM

It's a good thing when crap draws are shown. You want them to call without odds. I have to think this is a bigger leak, if it is one, at Curtains's level than at the $11's. You'd think guys playing $215 SNG's would know what they're doing.

wuwei

03-30-2005, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If this is really a leak, I'm probably guilty of it. I'm just not so sure it is. It's not infrequently that I'll get myself in a spot where I hate calling down or getting called with TPTK only to be somewhat shocked at the crap I get shown. Yes, sometimes you get shown a set or A-rag 2-pair, but I'm not sure this outweighs the times your TPTK is good.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Eastbay, here. I had a hand earlier tonight where I busted with AK in level 2. I probably should have found a way to lose less, but after some post hand analysis I think playing these hands the way I do in early level is +EV.

My biggest leak right now may be a willingness to say LETS GAMBOOL too often. Trying to figure this one out...

beeyjay

03-30-2005, 02:56 AM

My biggest leak is considering a game to be a 'success' when I get into the money on that table and (although usually subconciously) focusing on other tables where I am on the bubble more than the table where I am in the money even tho the difference between 1st and 3rd is more than 3rd and 4th.

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's a good thing when crap draws are shown. You want them to call without odds. I have to think this is a bigger leak, if it is one, at Curtains's level than at the $11's. You'd think guys playing $215 SNG's would know what they're doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, you want them to call without odds, but what I'm talking about is an otherwise winning player, calling off a healthy portion of their stack on a draw heavy board when it's readily apparent your opponent "got there".

I'm not presuming it's -EV to play TPTK, the leak I'm talking about is taking TPTK too far.

Pep.

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest leak is considering a game to be a 'success' when I get into the money on that table and (although usually subconciously) focusing on other tables where I am on the bubble more than the table where I am in the money even tho the difference between 1st and 3rd is more than 3rd and 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting take.

Apathy

03-30-2005, 03:03 AM

AA suited

03-30-2005, 03:23 AM

biggest leak:
Going for coin flips early in the tourny. ie: 15/30 blinds, ak vs my jj

2nd biggest leak: AK
i raise preflop, fire a 1/2 pot shot on missed flop and get called. check/fold to river

3rd biggest leak: not taking into account the min re-raise

i have aqs on button and raise 3bb. bb re-raise min. flop = q high on 2 tone board. i bet 3/4 pot and bb calls. turn=rag. i bet 1/2 pot and bb calls. river=blank and bb bets out all-in. i usually call but dont take into acct that he min re-raised preflop. he had AA. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Pepsquad

03-30-2005, 03:23 AM

Another one I thought of (but this just might be my own and not a problem for most winners) I am way too gung ho about my ITM%.

A common situation: It's 4-handed - Big Stack at ~9000, I'm sitting on ~4000ish and 2 small stacks under ~1500. Blinds are large. I find myself WAY too willing to lay down monster +EV hands to the Big Stack showing agression for the sake of my ITM% at the expense of my ROI. Of course, I'm not sure this can even be considered a HUGE leak when this particular set of circumstances may only present themselves 1-2 times per session.

But the thought of finishing 4th when all I had to do was coast into the money makes me want to hurl. I'm sure that has an impact over the long run on my ROI.

willie

03-30-2005, 03:33 AM

i think my biggest leak is being overaggressive 4/5 handed.

I push Ax so freakin hard 4 handed. usually it works out, sometimes i run into pps though and feel like an idiot.

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering what most of you feel is the single worst leak among winning SNG players? From my experience, it's taking TPTK/GK too far when facing agression in levels 1, 2 and 3. It meets all the criteria of a major leak and I constantly see otherwise very solid players putting themselves in awkward situations early with these hands. I'm anxious to hear others thoughts.

Pep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from all the other stuff mentioned...

Some leaks:

a) Not willing to admit that you're not finished learning and having your play get stale and stay the same after 100/200/500/1000 however many SNG's. Always new stuff to learn or ways to play different.

b) Not paying attention to betting patterns as there are some real wacky ways people bet hands when they first start playing, apart from the normal ways solid players play certain types of hands.

c) Game selection!

d) Not putting in your A game on every SNG played when multi-tabling all day, every day. When you're tired or tilting, quit. It's just money.

Blah some other stuff probably but that's the stuff that popped in my mind real quick.

Wu36

03-30-2005, 03:42 AM

ITM play is my biggest leak by far, not quite sure how to fix it though.

stupidsucker

03-30-2005, 04:08 AM

Honestly My biggest leak is my temperment. I dont want to classify this as tilt, because I still play just fine. Sure I waiver some, but for the most part I dont tilt play.

I do however....

Carry on a tantrum suitible for spoiled 2year olds only.

My voice hurts tonight from screaming at the monitor. I fear some day I may find myself explaining to the police who it is and WHY I am calling them a *^%&$ &$#&*$* Fish mother )(*&%**9 moron lucky son of a (*^$&*(&*^%%^.

This may not cost me anything more then a few keyboards a year, but someday it may land me in the hospital. I wish I was joking.. I eat enough frozen pizza to be close to a heartattack at any given 1 outer river card.

KJ o

03-30-2005, 07:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I push Ax so freakin hard 4 handed. usually it works out, sometimes i run into pps though and feel like an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you push I don't thnk it's much of a leak. If you call with it, it might well be.

This assumes that you do have less than 10BB so that pushing or folding are your only reasonable options.

Care to post a HH where you think you are overagressive and let some of us run the numbers?

mackthefork

03-30-2005, 08:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering what most of you feel is the single worst leak among winning SNG players?

[/ QUOTE ]

For low buy-in people definitely being weak tight, waiting for a hand (yuck).

Regards Mack

ilya

03-30-2005, 08:39 AM

Not paying attention 100% of the time.

lorinda

03-30-2005, 08:58 AM

Underestimating the value of 3rd place.

Lori

kyro

03-30-2005, 09:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Underestimating the value of 3rd place.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'd have to say a big leak of losing SNGers is OVERestimating the value of 3rd place

Paul2432

03-30-2005, 09:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
biggest leak:
Going for coin flips early in the tourny. ie: 15/30 blinds, ak vs my jj

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is much of a leak. Overplaying AK and JJ may be a leak because if someone shows a lot of strength early it very well could be AA, KK or QQ. However if you hold JJ and are fairly sure your opponent has AK (not sure how you could be sure of this, but let's say you are sure), not going all-in can be a huge mistake.

For example, suppose blinds are 15/30, AK raise in EP to 100, you raise with JJ to 300 and AK goes all-in. You have to call 700 to win 2000. You are about a 57% favorite, but getting nearly 3:1 pot odds. If you are reasonably sure your opponent does not hold AA-QQ folding here is a huge leak.

Paul

lorinda

03-30-2005, 09:48 AM

And I'd have to say a big leak of losing SNGers is OVERestimating the value of 3rd place

I don't think I would argue with that.

Lori

Voltron87

03-30-2005, 09:49 AM

Not playing your A game all the time... getting tired/complacent and making mistakes you don't usually make.

Scuba Chuck

03-30-2005, 12:41 PM

My biggest leak is the chips I spew from the big blind. I get to see a free flop with a hand like T8o. I hit top pair on the flop, and the chips literally grow feet and start walking across the board into someone else's stack.

Scuba
"goosewaba, goosewaba, betting impetus"

skipperbob

03-30-2005, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering what most of you feel is the single worst leak among winning SNG players? I'm anxious to hear others thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]
WOMEN - ROULETTE - 100 PLAY VIDEO POKER MACHINES - COCAINE
The rest of my SnG winnings I just waste....Oh, and inventing a forumbot

Khern

03-30-2005, 03:16 PM

Yeah, me too. Already killed one mouse this year, and my return key is going bad. Fortunately I live in a very new neighborhood and we don't have neighbors yet...

I do tilt a little however, but I don't tilt angry or tilt apathetic. I tilt paranoid. I feel like people are taking shots cause they see me folding too much. I start wondering if they can see my cards after being faced with a handfull of back to back difficult dicisions.

-John

Jdogg

03-30-2005, 09:34 PM

Letting my older brother learn how to play with my winnings, instead of giving him a few of my books...

Justin

curtains

03-30-2005, 09:41 PM

My biggest leak is that I don't suck out on people enough. Everytime I'm allin with T8s vs AK, I can't believe that it's even possible I can lose, but most of the time I do.

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 09:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]

My biggest leak is that I don't suck out on people enough. Everytime I'm allin with T8s vs AK, I can't believe that it's even possible I can lose, but most of the time I do.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah curtains it's a pain in the ass always being the favorite all the time huh? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif T or 8 baby T or 8 nooooooooooooooooo ...but they always suck out on me damn it! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I know exactly how you feel. The voices in my head told me so. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

ilya

03-30-2005, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

My biggest leak is that I don't suck out on people enough. Everytime I'm allin with T8s vs AK, I can't believe that it's even possible I can lose, but most of the time I do.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah curtains it's a pain in the ass always being the favorite all the time huh? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif T or 8 baby T or 8 nooooooooooooooooo ...but they always suck out on me damn it! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I know exactly how you feel. The voices in my head told me so. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's saying he's the one with the T8s.

TheUsher

03-30-2005, 10:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

My biggest leak is that I don't suck out on people enough. Everytime I'm allin with T8s vs AK, I can't believe that it's even possible I can lose, but most of the time I do.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah curtains it's a pain in the ass always being the favorite all the time huh? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif T or 8 baby T or 8 nooooooooooooooooo ...but they always suck out on me damn it! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I know exactly how you feel. The voices in my head told me so. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's saying he's the one with the T8s.

[/ QUOTE ]

<--- joking. I knew he was the one with the T8s. Come on ilya /images/graemlins/grin.gif