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View Full Version : flopped the straght - When do i raise?

vhuntd
03-30-2005, 01:12 AM
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

When should i raise? Flop or turn? I was afraid the turn might check through if i tried to craise the turn.
ArturiusX
03-30-2005, 01:17 AM
Don't checkraise.

Bet the flop. Let a raiser trap bets in.

Don't check-raise anywhere in this hand, you want to value bet.
aK13
03-30-2005, 01:17 AM
Knowing that you have the nuts (straight + flush draw), I'd smooth call the flop (slowplay), hoping the BB will bet into you again on the turn and hopefully the river, earning you at least 2 extra BB.
Ric
03-30-2005, 01:24 AM
Looks good. You have way the best hand here, and you don't want the turn checked through, so checkraising and leading the turn/river is a good way to go. If more action happened on the flop, then waiting til the turn probably works better.
bottomset
03-30-2005, 02:02 AM
just bet the flop
elbuddha
03-30-2005, 09:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing that you have the nuts (straight + flush draw), I'd smooth call the flop (slowplay), hoping the BB will bet into you again on the turn and hopefully the river, earning you at least 2 extra BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

You want hopeless hands calling you all the way, and hopefully giving you lots of action if a fourth heart falls. Checking anywhere in here is asking for a street to be checked through.
GrunchCan
03-30-2005, 09:45 AM
Bet the flop.

You have no reason to believe that an EP player to your left will bet, enabling you to CR for value. If an LP player to your right bets and you raise, you've just protected your hand by making the field face 2 cold - which is bad.

You want to get as many bets in as possible, as quickly as possible. The best way to do this is to lead the flop &amp; raise at every opportunity.

Read davelin's post on misapplied SSH concepts. I'll bump it.
DoctorDrew
03-30-2005, 09:46 AM
God, how I hate these "I flopped a monster did I get every last penny" posts? I flopped quads, bet or slowplay? Who gives a flying frig?

Dude, no offense but no one is going to learn anything from this hand. The difference between being a losing player and a winning player is not going to be found here. It lies in how you play the marginal hands! Sorry had to vent a little!
thesharpie
03-30-2005, 09:46 AM
Flop, homes.
GrunchCan
03-30-2005, 09:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
no one is going to learn anything from this hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. This hand illustrates the misuse of a value CR, and is therefore valuble for illustrative purposes. CRs are done wrong very often. IMO, they are one of the most-misused moves in the micros forum. This is a lesson that needs to be taught over and over again.
LuckyStrike
03-30-2005, 09:56 AM
You should just lead this flop. I don't like your flop checkraise because it is dependent on a bet coming from your left and with the preflop action this isn't very likely. That said, if you are going to try and checkraise the field and the bet does come from your left, I might just call and try that checkraise on the turn.
DoctorDrew
03-30-2005, 09:56 AM
Sorry Grunch I disagree. If we all want to stagnate reinforcing lessons for newbies fine, lets make this a beginners forum instead. Then we can start a forum for people who are trying to advance their abilites playing micros. If you have a question about c/r then search the freaking archives!

Please know this is not directed at you Grunch, just a general lament at where the board is going. Maybe I need to move up to the SS forum even though I am playing micros.
GrunchCan
03-30-2005, 10:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Grunch I disagree. If we all want to stagnate reinforcing lessons for newbies fine, lets make this a beginners forum instead. Then we can start a forum for people who are trying to advance their abilites playing micros. If you have a question about c/r then search the freaking archives!

Please know this is not directed at you Grunch, just a general lament at where the board is going. Maybe I need to move up to the SS forum even though I am playing micros.

[/ QUOTE ]

The micros forum is the de facto starting point for new LHE students. Its not a beginners forum, in that its not the place to post questions like "does a straight beat a flush?" But it is like freshmen &amp; sophomore level college courses, where people learn things like the difference and use of pot odds &amp; pot equity, reading the board and checkraising for value or protection.

The typical arc is for new students to start thier education in micros, then move on to SS where issues are less fundamental, and rely on basic knowledge. I do most of my reading in SS &amp; mid-high now, and most of my writing in micros.
DoctorDrew
03-30-2005, 10:15 AM
Thanks Grunch. Sounds like a good plan.
jrz1972
03-30-2005, 10:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no one is going to learn anything from this hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. This hand illustrates the misuse of a value CR, and is therefore valuble for illustrative purposes. CRs are done wrong very often. IMO, they are one of the most-misused moves in the micros forum. This is a lesson that needs to be taught over and over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed 100%. The play on this flop is not a close decision or a matter of style. Checking is wrong, and people need to learn why.
davelin
03-30-2005, 11:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Dude, no offense but no one is going to learn anything from this hand. The difference between being a losing player and a winning player is not going to be found here. It lies in how you play the marginal hands! Sorry had to vent a little!

[/ QUOTE ]

I counted three people who had something they needed to learn about this hand.