Should I learn Stud?

[zaxx19]

Hi, im a young poker aficianado who has (sigh) really only played NLH and done decently well building a roll from scratch basically in 7 months.

Ive dabbled in Omaha and Omaha 80 B with decent results.

I really want to learn Stud and have flipped through the Chip Reese section of SSystem once. Tried my hand at the lowest limits and broke about even. Which is decent for a total beginner.

The problem is I dont have a good short term memory at all. My longer term memory is great though, in fact, it helps me while playing holdem and seeing situations but, I just dont think I could memorize all the cards that have been out etc etc...

How big a part of Stud is memory?

Should I bother to buy the Zee book and learn the game properly or am I wasting my time?

[TheShootah]

Buy 7CSFAP and study up. Make sure to check out the loose games situation.

[mshalen]

Hey Zaxx nice to see back. I have missed seeing your posts on MTT for the last few weeks. I too have become tired of Holdem and have recently branched out to Omaha8 (which at the low limts seems very easy to beat) and stud. I have read Zee's book and Roy West's. Both have been very helpful.

As for memory I am about to re-open a can of worms here in the Jurrasic technology section. Most of the stud players here have a background of B&M cardplaying and rely on memory. If you have a slightly more modern/technological bent there are programs that help you track the dead cards. My biggest complaint is that there is no poker tracker or poker office for stud.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, im a young poker aficianado who has (sigh) really only played NLH and done decently well building a roll from scratch basically in 7 months.

Ive dabbled in Omaha and Omaha 80 B with decent results.

I really want to learn Stud and have flipped through the Chip Reese section of SSystem once. Tried my hand at the lowest limits and broke about even. Which is decent for a total beginner.

The problem is I dont have a good short term memory at all. My longer term memory is great though, in fact, it helps me while playing holdem and seeing situations but, I just dont think I could memorize all the cards that have been out etc etc...

How big a part of Stud is memory?

Should I bother to buy the Zee book and learn the game properly or am I wasting my time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you'd be wasting your time.

I play a lot of NLHE and PLO as well. The argument that big bet poker players would make for not bothering with Stud is, of course, that all the fish are playing flop games so if making money is your top priority there is no reason to play stud.

However, stud is a very engaging game and can be one of the most profitable when you find a good table. There many good games at all limits online and at the very least becoming a competent stud player could come in very handy if you stumble upon a juicy live game some day. In sum, I'm not sure that it would make sense for a newer player to specialize in stud and stud only because of how profitable HE and Omaha is right now, I think becoming a decent/competent stud player is a wonderful goal. Also, I've found that playing non-flop games like stud (high, h/l and razz) and triple draw have improved my general poker skills.

Memory: training yourself to remember the revelant dead cards isn't as hard as it seems. I have a lousy short term memory (too much amatuer horticulture in my younger days). I just worked my way up from remembering how live my cards were, to tracking how live the high cards are, to tracking suits and it didn't take long before I felt pretty comfortable. I'm no Jesus Ferguson, but I can track dead cards more then well enough for low-limit and most mid-limit stud games. That being said, it is really important. In loose games you are going to have seen a large chunk of the deck and adjusting your outs based on them is pretty crucial.

I'm tired of the dead card tracking software debate but there is a few threads discussing the issue. If you want to inform yourself of the different positions on it you might want to check out the search function.

Good luck.

[badvb750]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I've found that playing non-flop games like stud (high, h/l and razz) and triple draw have improved my general poker skills

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post. My limit Holdem game has become so much better since I started playing stud. I just started to learn triple draw which is a really fun game; I need to deposit on UB so I can play for real money.

[pokerrookie]

Ahhh, dont bother learning. Just jump right in to the high limits....

[Andy B]

There's more money to be made in hold'em, but stud is more fun. Get 7CS4AP. Remembering cards is important, but you can be pretty good at this game without remembering absolutely everything. There is a recent thread which includes links to a couple of great old posts by DocAZ about improving your card memory.

[zaxx19]

Thanks for all the responses guys....

I think Ill pick up the Zee book and I agree stud is an engaging game.

I think Stud is a very good game for a young player to learn I hope my post wasnt interpreted as "I can beat Holdem so what do I need Stud for..." bc that isnt the way I feel at all....

Im just perhaps overly concerned about how my mediocre short term memory will handicap me in the game.

BTW is the 7CS section of SS completely without merit>?

Outdated?

Bc I just ordered 3 poker books via Amazon and im trying to pace my purchasing a bit.

[bholdr]

'sup zaxx.

the 7cs section in SS is great, and still very much applicable to the game. the section on stud hi/lo is not as relavant: it was written before the 8 or better qualifier for low was popular.

"Im just perhaps overly concerned about how my mediocre short term memory will handicap me in the game."

memory is very important in stud, but not as important as just plain 'ol paying attention. there are some good posts by 'DocAz' about stud memory techniques, but i can't seem to find them. maybe someone here wil link them...

[WhiteWolf]

Zaxx -

I myself recently started in Stud to try to get a change of pace from Hold'em. I'm finding it useful for mixing it up and keeping poker fresh. Being in unfamilar situations also helps me by forcing me to think about the logic behind my decisions, which I think will make me a better poker player.

As to the card memorization question, Roy West's column in Card Player talks about just this thing - you can find the article here (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14648&m_id=65559) .

HTH,

The Wolf

[perfecto]

You're young and have poor short-term memory???

I say go for it!!! Even if you suck you won't remember sucking and you'll have years and years ahead of you to get better.

[zaxx19]

Perhaps I should clarify a bit...

I can remember like if my cards are dead or alive...approximately how many flushing cards are left and the like.

I cannot however envision a day were I like Ungar could effortlessly rattle off every exact card thats been out while high on crack....just isnt gonna happen.

[perfecto]

Ahhh...I see. You're afraid you'll never be as good as Stu Ungar!

I understand completely. Perhaps you'll be able to avoid crippling addictions and an early death too.

[Andy B]

The stud section of S/S is excellent and is the one section of that book that is relevant to poker as it is played today. You want 7CS4AP, though.

[MRBAA]

roy west's book has some good stuff on memory. It's actually pretty easy to remember dead cards -- there are only 8 players, let's say four fold, so that's four dead cards to remember. Now two more fold on fifth, so that's eight dead cards total to remember. sometimes it's a couple more, sometimes less. And, as you noted, you don't have to remember every one precisely -- just the ones that seem releveant to you or your opponents.