How badly did I play this AJ you pros please comment [Archive]

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Mizzles

03-29-2005, 01:58 PM

Call, raise, or fold AJ from MP1 (with 3 folds in front of you) preflop?

Take the free card on the turn here?
Easy fold on the river?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

AviD

03-29-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call, raise, or fold AJ from MP1 (with 3 folds in front of you) preflop?

Take the free card on the turn here?
Easy fold on the river?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimer: Not a pro

Easy openraise PF.
Bet the flop.
Check the turn, you are open ended now and that 8 is a good card for your draw but a bad card to bet. Could make alot of two pair connected hands, and you could already be way behind to a set, two pair, one pair, etc.

River call is strange, do you think SB is making a move on this board when there are quite a few hands that are likely and beat you. I'd say your A high vs another A high is probably best but I doubt you are againt A high here.

Prime reason to take the free card instead of paying 2BB in a small pot to have to fold the river. Calling the river you are giving up 3BBs in a hand you are probably losing 80%+ of the time, if not more.

That's just my .02.

BigSkiRace

03-29-2005, 02:26 PM

Im folding preflop...thoughts? If anything I would limp.

nykenny

03-29-2005, 02:31 PM

well put. i agree too.

TStoneMBD

03-29-2005, 02:32 PM

supermegaeasy preflop raise. there is no discussion here.

i think that most people here are just autocalling the river on draw heavy boards with ace high. im not sure if thats correct or not, but that appears to be the standard. i dont know what the semibluffing frequency is on pp15 because i dont play there, but your river call looks right to me.

you need to devise a plan once the turn comes. if you are intending to call a checkraise and pay off a river bet, then it is usually better to check the turn and call the river. you will save yourself money this way in the long run. if you have no intention of calling a river bet unimproved, then i feel that your hand is worth betting far more often.

its close, but i like the turn check without any player reads.

Paluka

03-29-2005, 02:36 PM

I think the river call is terrible. What are you hoping he has?

philnewall

03-29-2005, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river call is terrible. What are you hoping he has?

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that.

Fianchetto

03-29-2005, 03:23 PM

The preflop open raise is standard, as is the follow up flop bet.

On the turn I'd consider taking a free card. You have a lot of outs if behind and would rather not pay two bets to try to catch up. I would plan on checking the turn, and calling a river bet unimproved.

The way you played it there is no need to call the river, you are beat.

James282

03-29-2005, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river call is terrible. What are you hoping he has?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and I think the rest of the hand was played perfectly, including the turn bet.
-James

GreywolfNYC

03-29-2005, 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call, raise, or fold AJ from MP1 (with 3 folds in front of you) preflop?

Take the free card on the turn here?
Easy fold on the river?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimer: Not a pro

Easy openraise PF.
Bet the flop.
Check the turn, you are open ended now and that 8 is a good card for your draw but a bad card to bet. Could make alot of two pair connected hands, and you could already be way behind to a set, two pair, one pair, etc.

River call is strange, do you think SB is making a move on this board when there are quite a few hands that are likely and beat you. I'd say your A high vs another A high is probably best but I doubt you are againt A high here.

Prime reason to take the free card instead of paying 2BB in a small pot to have to fold the river. Calling the river you are giving up 3BBs in a hand you are probably losing 80%+ of the time, if not more.

That's just my .02.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a pro either, but this is exactly how I would have played it.

johnnycakes

03-29-2005, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I agree, and I think the rest of the hand was played perfectly, including the turn bet.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the turn had been the 2/images/graemlins/club.gif?

I think I'm having trouble finding the best line holding overcards on the turn against one opponent.

It seems like I get check-raised more often than I get my opponent to fold.

In general would it be better to check behind (when I have position) and make a decision on the river when my opponent inevitably bets? Is there such a thing as "in general"?

Ice

03-29-2005, 10:09 PM

Tstone

I have a question about the turn.In general on the turn when you pick up the draw(more outs) arent you better off to check? Lets say the turn was a rag and you get raised you could lay your hand down.(i know this is player dependent)But when you pick up more outs you really don't want to lay your hand down.I guess what i am trying to say is doesn't boil down to check (call) with outs and bet (raise) with no outs.Thanks Ice

TStoneMBD

03-29-2005, 10:35 PM

not always. in this case yes.

pfkaok

03-29-2005, 10:45 PM

I Like the call if SB is aggressive at all, as he could easily have missed heart draw, or missed OESD at least 10% of time.

Don't know how much of a "pro" I am, but I've played a dencent amount of the PP 15, and I would play this the exact same against a lot of opponents there.

Mizzles

03-29-2005, 10:54 PM

OK I agree this is a bad river call -- the reason I called is with a draw heavy board, if he check raised the turn on ANY sort of draw (open ended straight, hearts) he definately missed them all when the 10 paired the river. That is why I called the river.

Looking at the responses and thinking about this hand a bit more I think checking the turn here was a better play.

Ice

03-29-2005, 10:58 PM

Thanks .Ice

BradL

03-29-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im folding preflop...thoughts? If anything I would limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your joking right?

-Brad