When should I have folded this?

[PokerBob]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (21.33 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (20.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (25.66 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 29.66 BB

[Chris Dow]

You can barely call preflop and you certainly can't call 2 cold on the flop.

[MoreWineII]

I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold getting 13.5:1?

[Pokey]

KQs is strong enough pre-flop to call two cold when the betting is capped. You know you're going to need a bunch of help on the flop with this hand, but with your hand, you've got lots of ways to get it.

On the flop, I think both of your calls were pretty clear folds. You need two miracle cards in a row to have a winning hand here: AJ, or J9. I'm thinking your Q and K are probably both counterfeited here, and you're probably facing a huge pair, TPTK, and/or a solid straight draw (pocket 9s maybe?).

Given that you somehow got to the turn, your call there is fine. One bet for a gutshot to the absolute nuts when you're getting more than 20:1 odds makes financial sense. Even if you'd had to call two, you'd be getting good enough implied odds to continue, assuming you have the discipline to fold anything but a J on the river.

Oh, and the river bet makes sense to me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mr pink]

how clean are your king and queen outs?

nice suckout btw

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold getting 13.5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]

When it could very well get 3bet behind you? Yes. Effective odds, baby. You've got two overs which are almost certainly no good based on the (readless) preflop action, a disjointed straight draw and not even a 3flush. To me, this is a no brainer flop fold.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]
fold getting 13.5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, 13.5:1 with what kind of outlook? I look at the board on the flop and I can honestly say that I think you lose noticeably more than 12.5 out of 13.5 times. When the betting gets capped, that just shows even more strength in your opponents hands, and it's an even more clear fold to me.

SERIOUS CAVEAT: this analysis assumes no reads. If you had some notion that these were maniacs or otherwise quite loose and aggressive, your odds of winning go up quite a bit. If either of the post-flop betters/raisers were tight and/or passive, you're dead in the water (barring the miracle you actually got).

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

I would call two bets to me preflop as well. With 5 people in and the large pot, this one will payoff nice if the flop hits you.

It didn't....and its 3 bets cold to you.

I fold this on the flop.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold getting 13.5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. What the hell are you drawing to? Runner runner?

[KaiShin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold getting 13.5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you'd need 47:1 to call here.

[ckessel]

You got sucked in preflop, early position sucks. I raise with KQs as well and then grudgingly see the flop.

At the flop though, you've got almost no backdoor opportunities and one or both overcards may well dominated by AK/AQ.

Fold the flop. You've probably only got a runner/runner straight to win, or about 1 out.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is fine, but check-calling two bets on the flop is meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold getting 13.5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. What the hell are you drawing to? Runner runner?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[oreogod]

Do you make money in the longrun? Seems u like playing the dice.

Talk about getting lucky with a luck based strat. 98 percent it goes the other way. Oh well typical sort of play u see down at the docks, wait, tables.

EDIT: I meant 97 percent.

[TheDelChop]

I agree with everyone's replies, and I question the call pre-flop as well. I think that there so many ways that both your cards could be dominated that this is a fold. Instead of calling on the flop, just write the table a check for at least $12 if not more.

However,

"ITS BETTER TO BE LUCKY THAN GOOD!"