OFFICIAL NFL Draft Discussion thread.

[jakethebake]

April 23-24.
Links to...

Draft Order (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round1)
Players by Position (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/position/QB)
Draft Coverage (http://www.nfl.com/draft)

Anyone done a mock draft yet? Who looks good? Who are you hoping your team picks up? Etc. Etc. Discuss.

[jakethebake]

And i heard S.D. is shopping Rivers around. That could change things for someone.

[bugstud]

www.kffl.com (http://www.kffl.com)

go to nfl draft, there are people substantially more obsessed than anyone on here probably is.

[WC64]

I have ESPN Insider and constantly look to see what the rumors.

On there they have the newest rumor as Rivers being traded to the Niners for the #1 pick. This is just my guess but I would think the Chargers would take Braylon Edwards then.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I have ESPN Insider and constantly look to see what the rumors.

On there they have the newest rumor as Rivers being traded to the Niners for the #1 pick. This is just my guess but I would think the Chargers would take Braylon Edwards then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea. That's what I heard. They don't have to go to #1 to get him though.

[ucfryan]

As a Niner fan I hope we go w/ Rolle, Johnson, Edwards, or Benson with the #1 overall pick. Not sure if that's going to happen though. Here's my top 10 players in this years draft. I ran it by a scout that I know and he said it was on par with what he had.

~Ryans Top 10~

Antrel Rolle - CB Miami (6'1 197)
Answered questions about his short area speed/agility by posting very impressive short shuttle and 3-cone drill times, effectively elevating his stock. One of college footballs most productive playmakers at the CB position who burst onto the scene last season shutting down Larry Fitzgerald. I've heard a lot of comparisons of him to Baltimores Chris McCallister, I'm sure the team that drafts him wouldn't have any problem with that. A great CB prospect period, size, speed, and production.

Derrick Johnson - OLB Texas (6'3 244)
Extremely quick in space, good tackler, explodes when changing direction, and has great coverage/ball skills for a LB. Pretty much a coinflip between Antrel and Derrick for the best available player, but teams don't like to pay huge money for linebackers very early in the draft. That being said, how many times has Ray Lewis or Julian Peterson taken over a game?

Braylon Edwards - WR Michigan (6'3)
Tremendous physical prospect who can play like an All World receiver at times, but still needs to improve on his pass dropping and concentration. Has the potential to be a very dominant player at the next level, with all of the physical tools that scouts drool over.

Cedric Benson - RB Texas (5'11 222)
Benson was ultra productive at Texas for 4 years facing defenses keyed in to stopping him. Excellent change of pace ability, field vision, explosiveness, and a good receiver out of the backfield. Benson is the most complete back in this draft, whoever picks him up will get a bruiser who fights his hardest for every yard.

Carnell Williams - RB Auburn (5'11 217)
Alleviated some size concerns by showing up 10+ pounds heavier than expected at the combine, he also caught the ball well which was another knock on him. His unique combination of size and speed/quickness coupled with what he did in college football football the past couple of years make him a very intruiging, and probably the best RB prospect in the draft this year. I think it's close between him and Benson, but Carnell gets the edge because of his athleticism and long-term durability.

Ronnie Brown - RB Auburn (6'0 233)
Probably the player at the combine who improved his stock the most by posting a several sub 4.5 times, but definately being overhyped because backs don't run for 40 yards in a straight line. He has the ideal size, strength, speed, and receiving skills for a premier running back. He benefits from being a backup in college too in the fact that he'll probably have a longer shelf life in the NFL than Benson, who consistently saw 7 and 8 men fronts over the past two years at Texas.

Aaron Rodgers - QB California (6'2 223)
Seemed very mature, personable, and humble at the combine which I like to see in a player. When you combine talent with character you usually come out with a good result. He has a nice arm, great accuracy, adequate size, and good athleticism, but ran Tedfords one read offense at Cal. Not as good as any of the top 3 guys that came out last year, but still pretty polished and a good QB prospect.

Alex Smith - QB Utah (6'4 216)
Has more potential than Rodgers, but definately isn't as field ready. Alex played in a Utah offense that didn't see him under center, but rather in the shotgun. His footwork is mediocre-poor and his release is slow. He's a tremendous athlete though and a very smart kid, and a lot of people think he's going to have a great NFL career down the line. That being said, he needs to bulk up and he needs a lot of experience in an NFL type offense before he's ready to become a starter.

Mark Clayton - WR Oklahoma (5'10 193)
His lack of size is the only knock against him, but this guy can do everything else. He runs very precise routes, catches everything you throw to him, has great deep speed, is extremely ellusive in the open field, great body control, and he'll go up to fight for the ball. He's easily the best player in the draft in terms of yards after the catch. Great character, great talent, just a great football player, wouldn't be at all suprised if he turns into the next Marvin Harrison.

Mike Williams - WR USC (6'5 228)
I gained some respect for him running at the combine, even though his time was exactly what I expected. He might be running 4.48s on that rubber track at USF, but he's not going to do that on grass or in the turf. He's got great size and strength, but he's never going to be a deep threat guy. Still, he was very productive in college and has a lot of potential at the pro level, but I suspect it will take him a year or two to fully adjust. I see him as another Keyshawn Johnson, with the potential to be a little more dominant.

[gvibes]

I want Mike Williams for the Bears, but I wouldn't be surprised if we trade down with the Bucs or Tits (if Buccaneers = Bucs, then Titans = tits, right?). It seems that the WR's are a hot commodity.

I post infrequently on the KFFL forums under the same user name.

[PhatTBoll]

If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[IndieMatty]

Hey Jake, (or anyone else)I don't follow college football enough, but are there any Tight Ends out there who might be worth a 2nd/3rd round pick for my Jets?

[WC64]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I will too

[ucfryan]

Heath Miller out of Virginia and Alex Smith out of Stanford ar the top 2 TEs in this draft. Heath looks like a late 1st-early 2nd round pick in the Todd Heap mould, and Smith looks like a 2nd-3rd rounder maybe in the Eric Johnson mould. I've seen a couple of mocks that have the Jets taking Miller in the 1st.

Matt Jones out of Arkansas is also a really intruiging prospect. He played QB in college but scouts have been trying him at WR and TE at various all star games this offseason. He's 6'6 240ish, but ran a 4.38 40 at the combine. The guy is a tremendous athlete with a ton of potential, albeit raw for the position. He really impressed a lot of people at the Senior Bowl in Alabama earlier this year and looks to be like a 2nd-3rd rounder.

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happens when they draft Marlin Jackson?

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
And i heard S.D. is shopping Rivers around. That could change things for someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there weren't salary cap consequences to think about, this may have already happened, as it makes a lot of sense for both teams. But the prospect of taking the cap hit from a #4 overall selection after one year (who got paid like a #1 iirc) makes this near impossible.

Even if the cap weren't involved, if I'm SD I want SF to pay me some straight cash for the signing bonus I bestowed upon Rivers last year, and with the current SF ownership I find that unlikely.

[Redmen62]

Your top ten is good, with the only guy that's not a consensus prospect in that area being Mark Clayton, and i can see why you'd move him up there. Probably at least 50/50 that Troy Williamson is off the board as the third wideout before Clayton though.

If I had to make any changes to your top ten I'd swap Clayton for Alex Barron, OT Florida ST. There may not be a harder position to find in the NFL than a true Left Tackle, and he has everything you look for for the position minus a little upper-body strength and a mean streak, both of which can be added.

The overall (lack of) quality in the draft at Tackle means someone may reach, and I see him going between 6-13. Had a great Pro Day as well, 4.8 40 (on a fast track).

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
Heath Miller out of Virginia and Alex Smith out of Stanford ar the top 2 TEs in this draft. Heath looks like a late 1st-early 2nd round pick in the Todd Heap mould, and Smith looks like a 2nd-3rd rounder maybe in the Eric Johnson mould. I've seen a couple of mocks that have the Jets taking Miller in the 1st.

Matt Jones out of Arkansas is also a really intruiging prospect. He played QB in college but scouts have been trying him at WR and TE at various all star games this offseason. He's 6'6 240ish, but ran a 4.38 40 at the combine. The guy is a tremendous athlete with a ton of potential, albeit raw for the position. He really impressed a lot of people at the Senior Bowl in Alabama earlier this year and looks to be like a 2nd-3rd rounder.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good information. Thanks.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still a chance they take P. Surtain (sp?) off the Dolphins hands though.

[ucfryan]

Yeah, I just love Mark Clayton, he's such an underrated guy but he does everything right. I wouldn't be suprised if Williamson went ahead of Clayton, but I definately think Clayton is the better prospect. I've scouted Barron a lot, he's got a lot of potential but he's not a guy that's going to come in and start right away. He needs to work on his footwork and hand usage, I don't really see a huge mean streak from him either. But you're right, the tackle class is incredibly weak and it's a critical position. If I did swap someone with Clayton it probably would be him.

[SCfuji]

this year's nfl draft blows.

end of discussion /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
this year's nfl draft blows.

end of discussion /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. This year's draft is below average and not nearly as stocked at the top of the first round, but there is some talent and depth at several positions, some of which like RB have not had quality and depth for several years.

WR, RB and CB are all very good classes, DE looks solid and the Center class is supposedly as good as most can remember (good news for those NFL teams who are a center short of a Superbowl title /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

[ucfryan]

I wouldn't say the WR class is THAT strong, but compared to most years I think there's some really good prospects coming out. But the RB/CB class is absolutely loaded. Guys like Cedric Benson, Carnell Williams, Ronnie Brown, Ciatrick Fason at RB and guys like Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Adam Jones, Justin Miller, and Marlin Jackson at CB.

It's pretty bleak in comparison to the guys at the top of last years charts. Winslow, Fitzgerald, Taylor, Roy Williams, Gallery, etc. Most of the guys in the top 10 from last year would go #1 this year.

[SCfuji]

my fricken chargers are short of everything but a qb and rb. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ucfryan]

Try being a Niner fan /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[thatpfunk]

If the 49ers draft Alex Smith I will light myself on fire. He will fail in the NFL. It's like watching a train wreck about to happen and I don't understand why more people don't see it. Maybe because I saw him play through 2 years of HS while I was playing and he was miserable and I may be biased, but he just screams Akili Smith to me.

As far as Rolle, I love him, but because of the new passing rules, big corners are not worth nearly as much. Two years ago I would have been dying for the Niners to draft someone like him.

As it is, I don't really see anyone that I will be happy with the 49ers drafting. Rodgers and Smith are both pretty blah, especially for a number one pick, they can't really draft a running back unless they ship Barlow somewhere (which is NOT happening with his douchebag attitude and contract), and a WR won't do anything for us. I would give away the whole draft if fucko York would just sell the team.

Ugggh. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Ianco15]

Don't you think the niners need a QB over any other position? Ratay has proven himself to be useless and Ken Dorsey is a joke as an NFL QB.

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
my fricken chargers are short of everything but a qb and rb. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

last time i checked they had a pretty decent TE

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happens when they draft Marlin Jackson?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not think Justin Miller will be available, or do you think the Colts won't take him?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you think the niners need a QB over any other position? Ratay has proven himself to be useless and Ken Dorsey is a joke as an NFL QB.

[/ QUOTE ]

He looked ok when he has real recievers, oline and rb all on the field....

[ucfryan]

[ QUOTE ]
He looked ok when he has real recievers, oline and rb all on the field....

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, if you think Rattay proved himself worthless last season then you're really not watching the games. I attended one, and watched all of the rest of the games last year. How is a QB supposed to be successful when his WRs can't consistently get open, and his offensive line can't pass block or open up holes for Barlow in the running game. At the Tampa Bay game the safeties were at least 12-15 yards back from the LOS, and the WRs were getting jammed off the line, Rattay had absolutely no where to go all game.

Why do you think we spent so much money this offseason for a LT in Jonas Jennings if it wasn't a huge problem? Rattay HAS proven that he can be a good QB in the NFL with talent around him. The question is if he can get healthy in time for training camp to keep his job.

I think Edwards, Rolle, and Benson are at the top of the 49ers board. I really think all of this QB stuff is a smokescreen to lure someone in who's fallen in love with Alex Smith or Aaron Rodgers. We don't have a WR right now that can stretch the field or really create mismatches, and a lockdown corner is extremely important for the 3-4 defense Nolan plans on implementing. I'm not one of the people though that thinks we need a QB, and a lot of the other 49er fans don't think we do either.

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the Colts don't draft a cornerback in the first round, I will vomit with rage.

Hopefully they will look outside of the Big Ten for their draft choices this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happens when they draft Marlin Jackson?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not think Justin Miller will be available, or do you think the Colts won't take him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it was mostly a joke. CB is a position that's very hard to slot right now, and there may be 32 different orders of the the top group by draft time. As for Colts fans, I think the talent breaks down very well for you this year, as a good player from the defensive need areas should be there for you at the end of the first.

[BadBoyBenny]

There is supposed to be one tight end who is head and shoulders above the rest, can remember his name (Heath Miller?). Hopefully either him or the versatile Matt Jones will fall to us. I'd be happy about getting either in the first.

[CCass]

Around here, it sounds like the Titans (6th pick) will either take a CB or Mike Williams. I think they need an OL worse. Looks like another mediocre season for us.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
my fricken chargers are short of everything but a qb and rb. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they'll get some picks/players for Rivers.

[IndieMatty]

Chargers are not trading Rivers in the near future.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Chargers are not trading Rivers in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you say that?

[holeplug]

Doesn't River's cap number go up every year that they keep him too?

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chargers are not trading Rivers in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a tough deal to pull off b/c Rivers just got a big bonus. If they trade him now they'd have to absord a huge cap hit. If however they had their s**t together and traded him before March 10 it would have been doable.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a tough deal to pull off b/c Rivers just got a big bonus. If they trade him now they'd have to absord a huge cap hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? That's done. It does them no good to have him sitting on the bench, considering his trade value. I don't know where they stand in terms of cap room, but they can always arrange a deal to navigate around the cap.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
can always arrange a deal to navigate around the cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you can't. And given the fact that they have a pro-bowl TE who's going to hold-out and 2 first round picks the last thing they're looking to do is tighten this year's budget any more.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can always arrange a deal to navigate around the cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you can't. And given the fact that they have a pro-bowl TE who's going to hold-out and 2 first round picks the last thing they're looking to do is tighten this year's budget any more.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's already done. Regardless of what they do, that cap money is spent. And yes they can. You just pay more of the money later in the contract.

[brettbrettr]

No, what I mean is that is they had done the deal before 3/10 then the 49ers (presumably) would have paid that part of the bonus. Now, yes, that money counts against as spent. But as this bonus was techincally part of a signing bonus its still prorated over the life of the deal. If he gets traded the deal is done and all of it hits them this year. That's what makes this a tough deal. I'm not saying its impossible, but it won't be an easy hit to take.

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]
Around here, it sounds like the Titans (6th pick) will either take a CB or Mike Williams. I think they need an OL worse. Looks like another mediocre season for us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Rolle to the Titans at six makes too much sense not to happen, although I hadn't considered Williams.

[ucfryan]

I don't think Williams makes a lot of sense though, although it's reported that Fischer really likes him. I mean Williams definately isn't a burner, neither is Drew Bennett, and I'm not sure about Calico. Their defense was terrible last year with injuries, and with the loss of Samari Rolle, Antrel does make a lot of sense there, if he's still on the board. Niners are bringing him in for a personal workout this week /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[brettbrettr]

They're losing Dyson too so when I read the Williams reports I was surprised. I also thought they liked Pac Man Jones. Has Antrelle's stock risen that quickly? [censored], I could run a 4.5 40....Plus, I'm sort of not so secretly hoping Rolle falls to 26....For all the NFL GM's reading this forum, Rolle is a cancer.

[ucfryan]

Please, Jones didn't have half the production in college that Antrel did. Jones wasn't even considered a top 5-6 corner before the start of the offseason, only when it was reported that he was going to run a sub 4.3 40 did his stock rise, and that was all Kiper. Antrel ran around a 4.45, and posted short shuttle/3cone drill times comparable to the fastest players in the draft. Antrels main knock was that he didn't have swervy enough hips and he couldn't change direction quickly, he shut everyone up at his pro day. He's the best corner, and one of the top 4 players in this draft.

[CCass]

We are losing both Rolle and Dyson. We will probably get the best CB available, but Williams is a possibility because of his ties to our new Offensive Coordinator, Norm Chow. However, as stated, Williams isn't a pure speed guy and neither is Bennett. However, Calico, when healthy is an absolute burner.

[brettbrettr]

Hey bud, I don't diagree with you. I think guys rocketing up because the run well or do whatever number of reps gets taken way too far. Like I said, I'd like to see Antrelle in Jet green. As for top 4 players in the draft, maybe, not really a meaningful statement, certainly nothing we can argue, nothing I'd want to with you--nice avatar.

[brettbrettr]

Yeah, CB seems a real need. That said, you are certainly rebuilding and so Williams wouldn't be too much of a stretch considering its doubtful you're contending this year. You could also grab a corner who slips or make a deal to get one of the other ones in the late first. There are a lot of good CB prospects this year...

[ucfryan]

Oh I know, sorry if the tone came across bad, it wasn't intended. I just get sick of the Mel Kipers who pump everyone up based on how fast they run in a straight line. Football isn't played in straight lines.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Jake, (or anyone else)I don't follow college football enough, but are there any Tight Ends out there who might be worth a 2nd/3rd round pick for my Jets?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we might actually get Heath Miller. He's been hurt so he hasn't been able to work out which means he might slip
to 26. They say he might have the best hands of anyone in the draft....

If we got Mmiller in 1, I think we'd prob go CB in round 2 then a slew of o and d linemen for the rest. In not Heath Miller, other first round options look like Justin Miller, CB from Clemson, Fabian Washington, the CB from Nebraska, or Khalif Barnes, OT from Washington. If for any reason Carlos Rogers the CB from Aubrun slips past the Chiefs at 15, I think you'll see the Jets try to move up to get him.