check the flop, now what?

[schwza]

i thought this would be a good flop to check as giving a free card is not remotely scary. i also thought there was a pretty high chance i was going to take the pot down if i bet at it.

so i check the flop and the villain bets. now what? if i c/r now, i really doubt i'm getting called, even by KQ.

so i check/call, and the turn's a blank. lead out? seems dubious. for one thing, if he raises, i don't know where i stand.

i c/r the turn, but since we started 70x deep, there's still a fair amount of money behind. i've diagrammed my hand pretty clearly as AA/AK/KK, so if he reraises, do i fold after putting in over half of my stack? i was pretty unimpressed with my play all around on this hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP3 (t3575)
CO (t1025)
Button (t245)
SB (t1340)
BB (t2365)
Hero (t3225)
UTG+1 (t4150)
MP1 (t3215)
MP2 (t1570)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls t150, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls t100.

Flop: (t475) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets t350</font>, BB folds, Hero calls t350.

Turn: (t1175) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets t500</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1600</font>, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: t3275

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
so i check the flop and the villain bets. now what? if i c/r now, i really doubt i'm getting called, even by KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is Party - KQ isn't going anywhere. But, KQ isn't likely and you don't get the turn bluff from 77/AT/whatever if you check-raise so check-call probably maximizes your win with little risk against his range of hands.

[ QUOTE ]
so i check/call, and the turn's a blank. lead out?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the only hand you don't want to give a free card is QT. Anything else is way ahead/way behind so a check behind doesn't bother you, but a bluff from an inferior hand is very likely so I like the check.

I probably check-call the turn then bet/call the river, but I don't think raising the turn is bad since you get all of KQ's stack that way. Still, KQ is unlikely so check/call is fine.

Giving free cards is scary with only one pair, but I think it's the way to go at this stage of the tourney.

Finally, a personal preference: Stop the post before the betting ends. I might not be so fond of the free cards if I didn't already have confirmation that MP3 was bluffing position rather than slowplaying a set. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Later,
Che

[mts]

too passive for me. Why not check-raise the flop? Oh yeah, you want to play it fancy and trap people. Good luck Mr. Hellmuth

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
This is Party - KQ isn't going anywhere. But, KQ isn't likely and you don't get the turn bluff from 77/AT/whatever if you check-raise so check-call probably maximizes your win with little risk against his range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's true, KQ is probably not folding there. do you agree that check-call is better than leading?

[ QUOTE ]
Anything else is way ahead/way behind so a check behind doesn't bother you

[/ QUOTE ]

it bothers me a little if he checks behind with something like TT or AJ that might call a bet. but i guess realistically, he's more likely to make a crying call on the river than a call on the turn with these hands.

if he does check behind, do you agree that i should make a small value bet?

[ QUOTE ]
I probably check-call the turn then bet/call the river,

[/ QUOTE ]

do you fold to a river raise? a bluff raise or a raise from KQ or worse would be surprising. if i check/call the turn, the pot's 2175 and i have 2225 left. i'd probably lead out for about 750, so if he pushed i'd have to call 1500 to win a total of 6.5k - seems like i'd have to make a crying call.

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, a personal preference: Stop the post before the betting ends. I might not be so fond of the free cards if I didn't already have confirmation that MP3 was bluffing position rather than slowplaying a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point. thanks for comments,

dan

[billyjex]

I don't really play it this way but I tend not to get tricky with players in Party tournies unless I have a strong read on them. I would bet out the flop or C/R it.. but I'm sure sometimes I don't get as much value as I could for my hands.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
do you agree that check-call is better than leading?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think check-call accumulates more chips at the risk of more bustouts so I usually do it. However, it's close enough that I would actually reconsider if table image is going to be an issue (this is rare - table image is at the bottom of my list in terms of factors in my betting decisions). If I'm going to be here a long time (over an hour), I bet since I don't want people thinking I slowplay TPTK and checkraising my flop bets.

[ QUOTE ]
if he does check behind, do you agree that i should make a small value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
do you fold to a river raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Later,
Che