Anyone call this min raise & min re-raise?

[kevstreet]

I apologize, didn't request a hand history.

Level 1
$11 SnG

I'm in SB w/ K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

UTG raises to 30, MP re-raises to 45... I fold. BB and UTG call.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I was sick to my stomach, and there was a lot of action! Anyone call the 30 chips to see a flop?

[sturips]

We all see this type of miracle flop day in day out, particularly when we've just folded a marginal hand - erase it from your memory banks.

Personally with KQ I will fold in the early rounds unless its limped round to me which doesnt happen often. Then I will pop a small raise of 3 or 4 BB and see what the flop brings.

[swarm]

With KQ suited I will call 35 chips in a 3 way looking to hit two pair or better and not going crazy unless I hit a straight or flush.

You treat playing something like this as the same as playing small pp for trip value. If the deck doesn't slam you on the flop get out.

I think it is fine to look for double up opportunities but if you find that you can't help yourself from playing these types of hands for top pair good kicker situations then you don't make this call.

A key to remember is that if you play these type of hands early one of 2 things are going to happen.

1)Your going to double up more
2)Your also going to bust out early more as the more hands you play the better chance your run into a monster under the bed on a good hand.

I don't mind fishing for double up opps early for cheap but it has to be really cheap. You have to be disciplined though as the key is getting to the "blind steal/gamble rounds" with a decent amount of chips.

As long as you are making the top 5 on a regular basis with good stack of chips playing these types of hands are fine. Because in the top 5 its a % game if your push/fold play is solid of making the money. It's not that big of deal to be slightly shortstacked.

If you find that you are not making the top 5 on a regular basis, remove these types of plays from your game until you develop more discipline.

[Ryan527h]

Despite what other people are saying I say call. They just are alittle too close to following the AleoMagus 10+1 strategy, its a 3 way pot, and KQs is a good hand to make a flush or straight with, and there have been plent of times where flop comes QKx and you have QK and the other guy has AK, I think its +EV to play this cause when it hits you are expected to make a profit, and you are getting good odds in a raised 3 way pot.

[jackdaniels]

I agree with calling here. These min raises at early levels are pretty stupid. Im calling with any hand that has potential (small PP/Suited connectors) and either "flop big" or get out. The min raiser is either going to get 1 extra BB from me or get busted holding a big hand. In your situation you have 2 min raisers ahead of you, so the action isn't going to end with your call. I would say call here, fold to a re-raise from original raiser (pre-flop) and hope for a good flop (2 pair or better) with some action. Folding this is is too tight.

[pokerlaw]

I agree with the consensus and call. However, be ready to ditch unless you see a really sweet flop, as MRes and especially MRRes indicate KK or AA a lot of the time on the low levels. I like to call the MRR and MRes with a wide range of hands knowing this, because the holders of the monsters have a hard time letting them go, allowing me to double up when my 67 hits two pair /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[John Hurst]

I could see calling if you were closing the action but there is the possibility for UTG to raise again. It's very possible you could get trapped in the middle of a raising war with a dominated hand. Not good times. If you were somehow certain that it wouldn't get raised again preflop it's a closer call, but I don't know how you could be certain. A tougher question might be - what would you do with 99 in this situation against these minraising yahoos?

[jackdaniels]

You don't think you can call for set value with 99 here? Your opponents like their hands enough they don't want to scare anyone away. You are gonna get paid off their whole stack if you hit. These are some good implied odds.

[John Hurst]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think you can call for set value with 99 here? Your opponents like their hands enough they don't want to scare anyone away. You are gonna get paid off their whole stack if you hit. These are some good implied odds

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice I never answered the question regarding 99. With 99 I call the bet even with the potential of a reraise from UTG. Having a pocket pair against a minraiser who potentially has AA or KK is a dream scenario for implied odds. In this situation you have 2 min reraisers and position. But even in this scenario the majority of the time you are going to lose 45 chips or ~5% or your stack.

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
the majority of the time you are going to lose 45 chips or ~5% or your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what makes calling here correct. The blinds are so small that you are risking only 5% of your stack with a good shot at busting someone and doubling up. How many times will that T45 loss hurt you vs. the times when you hit and got paid help you? I submit that while you will lose these chips the majority of the time, the times that you do hit will have a bigger influence on how you do in the game.

If the blinds are higher and it is min-raised (anything past level 3), you have a tougher situation where it is prolly correct to fold the KQ. Here, I think it is correct to call

[John Hurst]

With KQ suited you are risking 45 chips preflop and could potentially lose your whole stack if your opponent has AQ or AK and you can't get off the hand when a K or Q hits. You could also lose a large percentage of you stack chasing a draw. Also many opponents will have the discipline to fold if the flush draw gets there.

[jackdaniels]

I stated earlier that you must "flop big" or get out. "Flop big" was defined as "2 pair or better". In this case, you would still take the stack off an AK. If they flopped a set on you (over your 2 pair), hope for your flush to materialize, otherwise - thats poker.

[John Hurst]

So your plan is to call the 45 chips, hope nobody reraises, and then fold if you hit less than 2 pair. Why don't you just buy a lottery ticket. Complete waste of 45 chips.

[jackdaniels]

Yes, thats the plan. Put in 5% of my stack early in the tourney for a chance to double up. My plan then continues to say that if I don't get the kind of flop where I can double up, I'll be very cautious with the hand and not give my opponent a chance to double up (on me) when a single Q or K hits the board. I guess I should have stated it more clearly: "flop big or get out of the way". Meaning, if there is significant aggression when I hit my top pair, it prolly isn't very good. If there is not much aggression, I'll prolly go to showdown.

That's a bit different than buying a lottery ticket.