How bad was this KK play here?

[yanicehand]

strange situation arose here where I'm sure I could have played much more correctly, however when I multitable late at night (uh morning) I tend to get lazy and I am certain it costs me money.

anyways: 1st hand of the SNG, 20+2, I'm in the small blind. Every single person limps in front of me, and I have KK. I move the bar for a heavy raise, then stop and figure an all-in here might catch a person who thinks I'm pushing with low pockets in an attempt to steal.
Also thinking that I don't want to deal with 4 people calling a 200 raise because of "pot odds" and have them draw out on me, I pushed and got no callers but was happy to pick up 9x15.

Thoughts on how correct/incorrect this is?

[Maulik]

I like this play, you don't want to go multiway with 4 players with kings. You don't need to play this hand for set value. If the flop comes all rags and you have many players, someone could be playing low suited cards and make two pair and you'll be more upset.

[Ryan527h]

I dont like this play, you can make alot more money by just raising the pot, you are gauranteed to get it down to atleast 3 way. And you are gaining more chips.

But your move wasnt so bad.

[jah0550]

[ QUOTE ]
you are gauranteed to get it down to atleast 3 way.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you guarantee that 3 will call? That might be the most moronic statement I've ever heard. What if he raises to 200 or something like that? You think that 3 people will call a 13x BB raise?

[Ryan527h]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you are gauranteed to get it down to atleast 3 way.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you guarantee that 3 will call? That might be the most moronic statement I've ever heard. What if he raises to 200 or something like that? You think that 3 people will call a 13x BB raise?

[/ QUOTE ]I didnt say 3 people will call, I said you will get it down to atleast 3 way action, can you read?

Why would you want more than 3 people seeing a flop when you have kings

[edgez]

3 way pot = 3 people in the pot moron. Seems you need to learn alot more before you give advice to other players. In this situation, i believe it was a good push, with so many callers, high drawing cards or even low-mid pocket pair might call a raise with the right pot odds ending up with a bad beat at the end. I have made this mistake to many times with AA and KK costing me money.

[Unparagoned]

Wow, guys, chill, no reason to get all over this guy for suggesting that putting in a big raise will narrow the field... All he is saying is that if you put in a raise to 200 and get a couple callers, that's a good thing! Do you really anticipate playing against 5 other people if you raise it to 200 preflop? I don't think it really matters which way you choose to play this hand. You can push, you might well get a caller. You can make a big raise, you also might get a caller this way. The only thing I wouldn't do is raise it to something like 75 here (my standard L1 raise with a big pair) because after the limping action we've seen, that may well induce a bevy of calls. Oh, and I'm not limping either, but I hope that was never really one of the options we were considering....

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

anyways: 1st hand of the SNG, 20+2, I'm in the small blind. Every single person limps in front of me, and I have KK. I move the bar for a heavy raise, then stop and figure an all-in here might catch a person who thinks I'm pushing with low pockets in an attempt to steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind this thinking. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. On the first hand it's hard to tell which response you'll get, which is an argument I think for playing this a little more moderately - raise to 150 or so.

[ QUOTE ]
Also thinking that I don't want to deal with 4 people calling a 200 raise because of "pot odds" and have them draw out on me, I pushed and got no callers but was happy to pick up 9x15.

[/ QUOTE ]

With that many limpers, I'd be thinking that it's highly likely that there are only one or two aces remaining in the deck, so your main fear in this kind of situation is a lot less relevant here, I feel. That said, if you had callers and an ace flopped in this situation, you'd be done. But I think that trying to get a couple of callers and then pushing on most flops (without aces, maybe without paired broadway) would probably be profitable.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]

With that many limpers, I'd be thinking that it's highly likely that there are only one or two aces remaining in the deck, so your main fear in this kind of situation is a lot less relevant here, I feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this train of thought - the chance of an ace flopping is a lot less likely than normal here. That said, I dont mind the push in this situation, though I would raise to about 250 98% of the time.

[imthatguy]

I'm still new here, but pushing this early might have made you look stronger to the other players. I think pushing was a good idea, and leaves you open to try it again with something stronger later.

[Raiser]

I likey.

Hopefully you'll run into one of the idiots who love to get their stack in on the first hand with AJ or something.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing was a good idea, and leaves you open to try it again with something stronger later.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does that mean? I dont think one should play KK a "certain" way to set up AA later ("something" stronger???). Im not saying this bc its a different of opinion, but bc what you said is just wrong...KK is often the best youll see over 5 SNGs...milk it...raise enough to get 1 caller...or none...but not as a means to some other end. Unless i misunderstood your line.

Anyways, welcome to the forum... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[faquewdikhed]

15x9=135... in the pot already, plus the 10 from the SB is 145.

A raise of 150 or 200 will be giving 8 people nearly 2:1 odds to call. I think you have to show that you are not screwing around, and raise to around 3 or 400. I wouldn't be surprised if you picked up 2-3 callers with that size of raise.

[bruce]

Raise enough to get it heads up or three ways. How much is that? Perhaps aroung 4 to 5 times the big blind. If you push most of the time you'll get no action. I prefer to see a flop in a controlled setting knowing that my chances of going broke have now increased. I want to get some action with pocket Kings. It might be the biggest hand I see all night. It's also amazing how many times in this spot when
I do get action and an Ace flops and I make a 3/4 size pot
bet I take the pot. Makes me wonder what they call with.

bruce

[faquewdikhed]

4 or 5 times the BB is only 75 chips. Who's not going to call that with 150 already in the pot?

[KingDan]

For what its worth, I either push, or I raise to 400 and push every flop.

[imthatguy]

[ QUOTE ]

What does that mean? I dont think one should play KK a "certain" way to set up AA later ("something" stronger???). Im not saying this bc its a different of opinion, but bc what you said is just wrong...KK is often the best youll see over 5 SNGs...milk it...raise enough to get 1 caller...or none...but not as a means to some other end. Unless i misunderstood your line.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess what I was trying to say, was that, later in the tournement, that 1st all-in might serve you better later if you tried it again. It wasn't very clear, sorry.